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Topic: need advice on building a doubleneck lap steel |
Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 8:31 am |
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I may decide to build a doubleneck lap steel (two sets of six strings) from spare parts.
Some things I have been thinking about:
1. The string setup:
Would it be better to just have 12 strings together and tune the first six in one tuning and the second set of six strings in another tuning? Or maybe put a small "gap" between the two sets of six strings? (and then mount the pickups accordingly)
Or put a larger (about 3 inches) gap to separate the two sets?
Or make as two separate guitars and maybe dowel them together.
Each way would make the guitar a different size and ... weight!!!
2. The wood:
For the thickness do you think I wouldlose a lot of tone if I glued two thinner pieces of wood together as opposed to using thick piece? Doing this would make it cheaper to build and also make building the narrower headstock easier sicne I wouldn't have to shave as much wood.
3. Would also appreciate any recomendations on where to get some decent wood.
I know I can do this with 2x4's from home depot but I was looking to make it a little nicer than that.
So any tips would be appreciated.
(I was almost thinking of getting two cheap "artisian six string laps and gluing them together but I changed my mind)
thanks
super kristen |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 9:09 am Re: need advice on buildig a doubleneck lap steel
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
I may decide to build a doubleneck lap steel (two sets of six strings) from spare parts.
I know I can do this with 2x4's from home depot but I was looking to make it a little nicer than that.
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The 2X4 from Home Depot does not have to look too bad. Real cheap to make.
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 9:26 am
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Wow that looks pretty good! maybe the sound is more from the pickups than the wood. What kind of wood (the fretboard) is on top of the 2x4? Is it glued on?
Couldn't you just have the frets "flush" or painted on the board itself?
thanks
super kristen |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 12:02 pm It's been proven that you don't even need wood for good tone
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| www.harmosmusic.com |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 2:50 pm
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Any hardwood dealer or even production cabinet shop near you will have poplar or alder which are very easy to work with and will make great steels. Being in Florida, you might even find a supplier of Southern Ash (if you do, let me know).
The only advantage or dimensional lumber (2x4's etc...) is that you'll be pretty close to the right thickness. If you find a hardwood supplier that carries wood that's surfaced on 2 sides, you can get eight quarter wood that's surfaced to 1 3/4" - perfect for laps.
Definitely put some distance between the "necks". You can paint on frets. I have a quick-and-dirty 6 string that has a paper print-out for a fretboard...works fine.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 8:57 pm
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How about hardwood floor boards glued together to the right size?
K |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2009 2:29 am
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
Wow that looks pretty good! maybe the sound is more from the pickups than the wood. What kind of wood (the fretboard) is on top of the 2x4? Is it glued on?
Couldn't you just have the frets "flush" or painted on the board itself?
thanks
super kristen |
Fretboards are maple I picked up at a yard sale. Glued on. You could just paint on the lines on the body. |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2009 7:23 am
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So many ideas going through the forum. It is really opening up my imagination. . I am going to look for some "real wood" from furniture at yard sales as well as other places.
In the meantime I am getting a string adaptor for my steinberger clone so I can use "normal strings" (with one ball end) and get the string gages I need. Gonna try and use that as a 6 string lap steel until I build a double neck.
k |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Apr 2009 8:07 pm
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
I am going to look for some "real wood" from furniture at yard sales as well as other places.
k |
You may find some nice stuff at bargain prices at a yard sale, but you have to be aware that lots of furniture is veneered. The wood beneath the top layer my not be much better than the 2x4's from Home Depot.
If you're looking to save money, just find some 8/4 poplar. I just bought a plank big enough for 4 single necks or 2 doubles and it cost $28 - $7 per neck.
Wood is the cheapest part of the project. You need about 4 board feet for a simple double neck and even really nice furniture wood like cherry, maple, walnut, mahogany can be had for $4-$8 per board foot.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Ray Shakeshaft
From:
Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 3:16 am
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I see that most double necks have the one furthest from the body raised. In your opinion is that essential, simply advisable or just 'fashion'?
(I see that Bill's necks are level) |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 3:29 am
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Raised "north" neck is advisable bordering on
essential...I find it next to impossible to play
bass notes if the left hand resting area is level
w/ the strings.McUtsi |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 3:36 am
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| On a D6 I find it not necessary at all. I made the necks closer together making it easy to play both. If you were making a D8 with the necks farther apart then yes. |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 9:20 am
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Lots of good info so far ... and Bills guitar is a fatasic example of an economical, clean and simple design.
On woods, the pickup and electronics will have the lions share of what the guitar will sound like, but the body material is important too.
Pine, poplar, alder, maple, ash, and African mahogany / khaya are all good choices that won't break the bank.
I'd just caution that much of the construction grade pine found at HD, Lowes, and the typical lumberyard can be a little green / wet still. Look for the premium kiln dried stock.
John's suggestions are spot on and a trip to a hardwood dealer is actually a lot of fun. I love going through the racks of wood looking for those hidden treasures.
Here is a chunk of some rare quilted mahogany I found on my last outing.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g94/quarterbend/rp/quilt-mahog4.jpg
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 7:58 pm
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what would be some good ballpark dimensions for making a double-neck ... length, width and depth... to give me a idea of the size of the wood i need to get.
I was thinking getting three pieces which are about 32 inches long, 10 inches wide, and 1/2 inch thick. then I would glue them together to make a thick 1 1/2 inch board.
Does that sound about right?
k |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 8:36 pm
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For an Idea on size, here is the latest single I just finished. It's a 24" scale, it measures 7.375 wide, it's 1.750 thick, and it is 34.250 long. And it's made from rock hard maple. string spacing is .375.
Maybe that will give you a little help on what size to make your guitar.
Rocky |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Apr 2009 9:49 pm
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
I was thinking getting three pieces which are about 32 inches long, 10 inches wide, and 1/2 inch thick. then I would glue them together to make a thick 1 1/2 inch board.
k |
Shouldn't be any need to glue up thin stock. You'll acctually spend more for material that's processed to that point, anyway.
Your dimensions seem about right. The easiest way to be sure you end up with something workable and good-looking is to draw it out full scale. On a project like this it's not too difficult.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 5:26 am edit
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edit
Last edited by George Piburn on 22 Jun 2012 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 9:48 am
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A lot of good wood is found in old furniture, and it comes ready-aged. I've found that changing tables are usually made of maple and they end up at Goodwill. I rarely throw anything out that's made of wood. You never know when it can come in handy.
Nuts and bridges can be made out of tapped rod, which can be gotten from any hardware store. It works better than L strips because it doesn't put such a drastic turn on the strings, so avoids string breakage, and the tapping lets you change the string separation by just lifting the string and moving it to the next groove.
Fingerboards don't need to use fretting material. Anything will do, from matches to just painted on. I can send you an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the fret positions for you. You just type in the distance from bridge to nut and all the calculations are immediate. I recommend that you cover the area with masking tape, draw the frets on with a ballpoint pen, cut strips of the tape away with an Xacto knive, paint the area, and remove the tape, leaving tidy fret markings.
As has been said many times, a steel guitar is basically a plank with strings and a pickup.
A lot of steel guitar work is done on regular electric guitars, just by slipping on a riser nut. If you want a shorter scale you can use a capo. |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2009 6:02 am
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I am still searching locally for some good thick wood locally ... but in the meantime I thought i may as well experiment with an inexpensive single neck. I was going to use a pine 2x4, but splurged and picked up a piece of poplar wood for 12 bucks. Its 6 inch wide and about 3/4 in thick wide and six feet long so I will cut in half and glue and screw together to get 1 1/2 inch thickness. .....then ...
hopefully start the next step
K |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2009 7:44 am
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If you glue and clamp, there should be no reason to have to screw them together. A clamped wood joint should be stronger than the wood itself!
Rocky |
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2009 5:36 pm
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| Rocky Hill wrote: |
| If you glue and clamp, there should be no reason to have to screw them together. A clamped wood joint should be stronger than the wood itself! |
That's the right approach...IF you have a bunch of clamps laying around. And I'm guessing since you're going about this project the way you are, you may not have a shop full of tools.
You might find enough weight to get good, even pressure on the boards, but you'd have to stack books and cinder blocks and bricks and pans full of water and lord knows what else.
The screws are a pretty good idea, but be sure to drill a pilot hole in the "top" board and not in the bottom. What you want to do is squeeze the boards together, so the screw has to not grab into the top board except at the head.
Space plenty of screws nice and even (borrow a drill with a screwdriver bit if you don't have one), use 1.25" screws so they won't go through and then take them out when you're done. You'll have a very nice 1 1/2" laminate with one clean side to use as the up side of your guitar. You could even get some 1/8" dowel to fill the screw holes, if you wanted to.
Keep at it, don't get ahead of youself, think things through. You'll have something to be proud of when you're done.
If you need parts (and you do), email or PM and I'll see if I can help you find some things at reasonable prices.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2009 12:41 pm
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I glued two pieces of poplar together (clamped) and waiting to dry. The idea of using a tapped rod is great(I had to look that one up - essentially a threaded bolt with the head cut off - right?).
Alan, those guitars are beautiful works of art. Also, ...I happen to find a program online that calculates the fret distance, but I am not nearly at that stage yet. I plan on making it 22.5 inch. What would be nice is something that would draw it "to scale", but i guess I will have to do it the old fashioned way ... with a ruler!. I think I will just paint the frets on the wood. Speaking of fretboards, where do they sell those really wild colorful fretboards found on some steel and pedal steel guitars
K |
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Ray Shakeshaft
From:
Kidderminster, Worcs, UK.
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Posted 27 Apr 2009 1:57 pm
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| Speaking of fretboards, where do they sell those really wild colorful fretboards found on some steel and pedal steel guitars |
I suspect that most people design or copy the old designs in Photoshop etc. and then put the printed copy under plexiglas/perspex as I have done. |
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Rocky Hill
From:
Prairie Village,Kansas, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2009 4:05 pm
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
I glued two pieces of poplar together (clamped) and waiting to dry. The idea of using a tapped rod is great(I had to look that one up - essentially a threaded bolt with the head cut off - right?).
Alan, those guitars are beautiful works of art. Also, ...I happen to find a program online that calculates the fret distance, but I am not nearly at that stage yet. I plan on making it 22.5 inch. What would be nice is something that would draw it "to scale", but i guess I will have to do it the old fashioned way ... with a ruler!. I think I will just paint the frets on the wood. Speaking of fretboards, where do they sell those really wild colorful fretboards found on some steel and pedal steel guitars
K |
Actually it's threaded rod not tapped, and it called all thread. You should be able to find it at just about any hardware store,
You can get it in .250 .500 .625 .750 those are the common sizes, you can find it at Home Depot.
Rocky |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Apr 2009 5:17 pm
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
...essentially a threaded bolt with the head cut off - right?).
......I happen to find a program online that calculates the fret distance... |
Thanks for the compliments. The threaded rod and also the threaded tube that I use I buy in yard lengths from a hardware store. I get mine from Ace Hardware. One length will last for quite a few guitars. I wouldn't advise cutting the heads off bolts. The material is usually a lot denser and takes some cutting, and very few bolts are long enough. With a longer length you can cut it to whatever side you want.
I have an Excel spreadsheet that I wrote to calculate fret positions. If you let me have your email address I'll send you the spreadsheet. |
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