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Topic: lap or not lap, what say ye? |
Ron Victoria
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 11:47 am |
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| I can't coment on whether or not it's a "Stringmaster"..I'm no expert.But my thinking is in line with the seller on the "lap" issue.If it has legs it's not a lap steel..JMHO... |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 11:56 am
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Whatever you call it, I'd like it! It's definately a Single–8 with 3-Legs, but; I don't know what model it is called. I know the “Deluxe–8” had Dual~Pro Tuning-Well and Trapizoid P/U and short 22½” scale, but; I don't know if this model was a replacement model or an optional model. It definately utilizes Stringmaster components! It is also a 22½” scale! I personally would prefer the Deluxe-8 Model! I certainly wouldn't call my T-10 Remington or my D-8 Rickenbacker a Lap~Steel! In this case, with a Single-Neck, It can be played either way and thus, either name would fit! Although you know, National did make a double-neck steel w/o legs!
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My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Chris Walke
From:
St Charles, IL
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 12:09 pm
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But let's say the legs got lost somewhere along the line. how would he have listed it then? "Lap steel with legs, but without legs so you have to play it on your lap, but it's not a lap steel"?
It's a non-pedal steel guitar.
To me, it's a lap steel, because if I had it there would certainly be times when I'd play it on my lap. Legs are just an add-on to me, unless it's a console. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 12:52 pm
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It's a Fender Deluxe 8 as shown in this photo from the 1972 Fender catalog.
Whether or not it's a "lap" steel, it's definitely a Fender Deluxe 8.
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A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 1:28 pm
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Looks like a single-neck Stringmaster to me  Brad is right, it's more properly called a Deluxe 8, but since it's built a lot like a Stringmaster, I don't think anyone should have a cow over it.
And no, it's not a lap steel, it's a console steel or table steel, i.e. a lap steel with legs 
A bit pricey for my tastes, but still...
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 1:31 pm
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Ron, Fender didn't call the single neck models "Stringmasters" - but they have sometimes been called Stringmasters by people who aren't aware of that.
Like Brad says, the single neck model is called a Deluxe 8 (or Deluxe 6).
The earlier single neck model with the trapezoid pickup was also called a Deluxe 8 (or Deluxe 6).
As for whether it's a "lap steel" or not - if you don't screw in the legs and put it on your lap, then it's a lap steel.
But you're not going to convince this seller.
His mind is made up. Don't try to confuse him with the facts.
It doesn't matter anyway, we all know what it is.
It's a later 60s - 70s model as evidenced by the black case.
That means it's not swamp ash. These later Deluxes have a rep for dying above the 12th fret.
So his claim that "they don't get any better than this" is relative . .
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BIG STEEL |
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Roy Ayres
From:
Riverview, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 1:58 pm
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In my opinion, the term "lap steel" has evolved into a generic term that indicates that it is NOT a pedal steel, regardless of whether or not it is held on one's lap. One could say that there are two types of steel guitars: lap steel and pedal steel.
(However, both would be incorrect, as steel guitars are hardly ever made from steel.)
What was the original question?
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 3:09 pm
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| It is a steel guitar. |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 3:31 pm
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It's a Deluxe 8. I bought one new in the 1960's from Jimmy's Music Shop (across the street back then from Manny's in Manhattan) and paid $120 for it.
For all practical purposes, it is a single neck Stringmaster. I later bought a T-8 Stringmaster and I got identical tone with both instruments.
It's a non-pedal steel playable on the lap or with the legs. I always used the legs while performing on it in my band. The smooth bottom made me think that it was not intended primarily for playing on one's lap. |
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Janet Newsom
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 4:57 pm
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And I have a National double neck 8 string non pedal steel that I just found out this year is a lap steel.
It has 4 legs. 
Janet
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www.myspace.com/dobrojan |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 8:03 pm I commend YOU!
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RICHARD:
I'm in YOUR corner on this one, a reoccurring issue on this Forum.
It's a steel guitar FIRST!
Legs were invented to make it more comfortable to play and possibly, easier too.
Pedals were invented to make the musical sounds more varied and full.
It's somewhat like those that still refer to classic old country as being back in the '80's) Steel guitar (Hawaiian) is WHAT IT IS and it lacks NOTHING to be that. The later changes in design were OPTIONS that were invented and added-to. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 8:28 pm
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I agree with Rick, Brad, and others. It's not a Stringmaster. It's a Deluxe 8... which has stringmaster features, hence the misnomer. There's no such thing as a single neck Stringmaster, but sellers will probably continue to call their single neck Fenders "stringmasters". Unfortunately Vintage Guitar Magazine's Price Guide lists this guitar as a "Deluxe 8 Stringmaster Steel". If an error is repeated enough times becomes the truth.  
Lap steel? I guess nowadays that term is applied to any steel guitar that does Not have pedals.
I have seen the opposite too... lap steels listed as "pedal steel". Some people call Every steel guitar a "pedal steel". That really irks me. I saw an old Supro listed on eBay as a "pedal steel" a few months ago. I emailed the seller and asked him "where are the pedals?" He responded with a confused explanation about this is a pedal steel... it's played with a slide... etc.
I agree with others who have said that we play STEEL GUITAR... whether it be lap, legs, or pedals, or even acoustic. I don't even use the term "pedal steel guitar" anymore when referring to my pedal steel guitar. I simply tell people it's a Steel Guitar... enough said.
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Apr 2009 10:37 pm
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The seller says to check the vintage guide, and in mine (2nd edition) it does in fact erroneously refer to the single neck model as a Stringmaster.
The seller lists it as a blonde finish but the pictures look more like butterscotch to me. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 7:15 am
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This is a single neck Stringmaster:
(before completion)
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 15 Apr 2009 8:59 am
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Good one, Erv!
I think the name "Deluxe-8 Stringmaster" will probably stick as the years go by. Evidently sellers find the name useful to distinguish this model (with stringmaster features) from the earlier Deluxe-8 model with the trapazoid pickup, different body shape, different tuners, etc. It's confusing when a company changes the style but keeps the same model name. Gibson did that with the Les Paul. The 1952 through 1960 LPaul has the traditional LPaul shape and look. Gibson changed the body style radically in 1961. A '61 through '67 Les Paul looks exactly like today's SG model, but it has the Les Paul logo on it. In 1968 the company switched the Les Paul back to it's original style, and that is made to this day. So the guitar books have to specify, for example, 1962 Les Paul (SG style).
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 8:30 pm
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I would tend to call this a Console Steel rather than a Lap Steel, as it's intended to be played with the legs on. Of course, you can fit legs to any Lap Steel, and many players do. It would be a little awkward to balance a Fender like this on your lap.
$1,000 seems a bit pricey to me for a single necked Fender. For that price I would expect a D8 Stringmaster. |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 7:49 pm
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In order to be a Stringmaster it must be a multi-neck guitar. It is a Deluxe 8. Deluxe 8's before '56 have trapezoid pickups, "lolli-pop" tuners and other feaures found on pre '56 Fender steels while post '56 Deluxe 8's have features found on Stringmasters, dual pickups, kluson tuners etc.
Since this is a little confusing, people often refer to Fender Deluxe 8's from after 1956 as S-8 Stringmasters but technically it's a Deluxe 8.
I personally HATE the term "lap steel". ESPECIALLY when it's in reference to a guitar with legs. It's like a disclaimer saying,"This isn't a pedal steel. It's a LAP steel, so don't be disappointed with it's musical limitations". When people say I play lap steel I say,"No, I play steel guitar". When they ask the difference I politely say that lap steel is a slang term that I don't appreciate.
It's a STEEL GUITAR! We are STEEL GUITARISTS!
Chris Scruggs |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 8:37 pm
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| Chris Scruggs wrote: |
It's a STEEL GUITAR! We are STEEL GUITARISTS!
Chris Scruggs |
Aye, says I and ye.
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 9:30 pm
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What ever you want to call it.
IT sold for $1,025.00. 
Aloha,
Don |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 6:01 am
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When I started on guitar over 50 years ago, there were only two types of guitars.
You either played a "Hawaiian" guitar or a "Spanish" guitar.
It certainly eliminated any confusion.  |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 4:15 pm
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Yes, it simplified the position regarding the Hawaiian guitar but created a lot of confusion about the Spanish Guitar. They were referring to archtops as Spanish guitars at the time, when in reality the ONLY guitar that can be called Spanish is the flamenco or classical guitar.  |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 22 Apr 2009 6:00 am
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When I was a kid, the "Spanish" guitar was one that you fretted with your fingers.
It didn't make any difference as to its origin, the type of guitar or the music being played on it.  |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 22 Apr 2009 10:06 am
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| Quote: |
| When I was a kid, the "Spanish" guitar was one that you fretted with your fingers. |
You're right, Erv. "Spanish" guitar meant a standard guitar, as opposed to a "Hawaiian" slide guitar. A lot of old string Sets had "Spanish or Hawaiian" printed on the package. The term originated in the pre-electric guitar era... probably 1920s, 30s. I've heard a lot of older folks (no offense Erv!) use the term "Spanish" to refer to the regular guitar. I play a few guitar gigs, and at a recent gig an older man who knows me as a steel player came up and asked me... "How long have you been playing Spanish?" My father used the term too, and he was born in 1912. 
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