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Topic: Emmons- Knee lever adjustment |
Trevor Fagan
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 5:42 am |
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I just acquired a 71 Emmons push/pull which has the RKL lowering the E's and the LKL raising the E's. When I engage the RKL, it causes the LKL to move to the right... touching my left knee, which prevents the E's from lowering properly. Otherwise, the guitar works great. Has anyone heard of this problem?
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'73 Sho~Bud Pro II, '71 Emmons D-10, '75 Sho~Bud Maverick, Guyatone D-8, Session 500, Nashville 112, Sennheiser e609 |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 5:59 am
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| This is inherent in a push pull. Just make more separation between the levers so you get the full lower. Some Emmons levers are adjustable for angle or you can move some collars a bit. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:00 am
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The raise lever moving when the lowering lever is engaged is a characteristic of the PP, because when the lower finger is pushed, the raise finger is also pushed (which does nothing since the raise finger must be pulled to activate it.)
So there's nothing wrong with the guitar, though you and the guitar do seem to have an ergonomic difference with each other.
The knee lever assembly is fastened to the crossbar with a machine screw that threads THROUGH the crossbar, so moving it is problematic. You may need to move the LKL further to the left, which may or may not be easy, depending on what else is in the way, whether you have a D-10, S-10, or SD-10.
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:50 am Emmons Knee Levers
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Trevor,
Herb did a great job explaining the Emmons PP characteristics. I have a feeling that's why most Emmons PP guitars have the E's lowering with the LR lever, which would move your knee out of the way of the LL lever as it moves to the right during the lowering process. Here is a thought; might you consider reversing the function of the RL and LR levers? How is your Sho-Bud arranged? I know that a lot of them are set up like your Emmons is. Hopefully we can help you make a good decision to resolve your concern.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Trevor Fagan
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 7:12 am Re: Emmons Knee Levers
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| Lynn Stafford wrote: |
Trevor,
Herb did a great job explaining the Emmons PP characteristics. I have a feeling that's why most Emmons PP guitars have the E's lowering with the LR lever, which would move your knee out of the way of the LL lever as it moves to the right during the lowering process. Here is a thought; might you consider reversing the function of the RL and LR levers? How is your Sho-Bud arranged? I know that a lot of them are set up like your Emmons is. Hopefully we can help you make a good decision to resolve your concern. |
Yeah Lynn, My Sho-Bud lowers with LKR. I would prefer if the Emmons were setup the same. I'm totally new to this push/pull stuff, and not sure if I can reverse the function of RKL and LKR using the existing hardware. Here's the copedent on the E9th neck.... could I simply move the rods from the 5th and 9th strings to the 4th and 8th ? If so, what should I do with my RKL using the existing hardware?... hmmm
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'73 Sho~Bud Pro II, '71 Emmons D-10, '75 Sho~Bud Maverick, Guyatone D-8, Session 500, Nashville 112, Sennheiser e609 |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 9:17 am Knee Lever Reversal
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Trevor,
The simple answer is "yes" but the process is much more involved because it requires a fair amount of work. It amounts to moving the bell cranks, drop rods, springs and collars from 5 to 4 and 9 to 8 on the LR lever and from 4 to 5 and 8 to 9 on the RL lever. Because the drop rods are fairly long on the LR lever it requires some time and patience to do the swap, along with the right tools (like snap ring pliers and allen drivers). You also need to make sure you get the shock springs and set collars positioned correctly for the changes to work the way they should. That can be a little tricky, if you're not too familiar with how to get these PP guitars to be properly set up.
You might like to take a look at this web site created by John Lacey, as he's done a nice job of explaining things.
http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html
I'll be happy to help you as much as I can as well.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 10:09 am
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I would use RKL to raise s.1 and s.7 (now on LKV), and lower s.5 and s.10. on LKV. These are the traditional places for these changes on the Emmons setup.
Since you admit you are new to the PP experience, there are two alternatives you're faced with.
One way is that you can look upon this task as a learning experience and attempt the disassembly and reassembly yourself. You will, for all intents and purposes, be dismantling most of the E9 undercarriage to do these things. It will be time consuming and involve quite a lot of tinkering and rebalancing. You may get lucky, but in my experience making that number of changes on the PP could possibly compromise other pedals/levers due to needing accessible space to move things, routing of rods, etc. The job CAN be done though, and your knowledge and understanding of the PP will increase dramatically.
Alternatively, you can send the instrument to one of any number of expert PP mechanics,. most found here in Forumland, who can do the job for you and send you back a completely playable guitar, possibly even better set up than what exists now. The learning experience here is how much it costs to have this job done for you.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Whip Lashaway
From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:29 pm Go For It!!!
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What Herb just said!!!! When I bought my PP from Bob Hempker the E9 knees where on the wrong sides for my liking. I knew NOTHING about PP's at the time. I read everything I could on line about them and took it upstairs and turned it belly up for about 2 monthes. I have what I consider a somewhat above average ability with my hands mechanically. Managed to figure it out and get it the way I want it. I now have a much better understanding of PP mechanics. If you're mechanically inclined at all.....GO FOR IT!! Good luck and God Bless. Whip
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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 7:55 pm
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Yep! 
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 7:19 am Emmons Push-Pull Repair Guide
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Trevor, if you decide to do this yourself, I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar". Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis.
The booklet shows how to make simple adjustments or take the entire guitar apart and put it back together.
In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out.
He usually sells the booklet on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Guide Booklet" for $11.
He also sells a DVD listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology DVD P/P Guide" for $17, and a combo package of the book and DVD as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Book & DVD Package" for $22.
If you can't find it on e-Bay, you can contact Clem at: freedomsauce@bellsouth.net
Good luck, and congratulations on your purchase!
- Dave |
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Trevor Fagan
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 7:29 am
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| Herb Steiner wrote: |
| I would use RKL to raise s.1 and s.7 (now on LKV), and lower s.5 and s.10. on LKV. These are the traditional places for these changes on the Emmons setup. |
Hey, you guys are the best! You really know you're stuff... I spent a couple of hours last evening reversing the function of the RKL and LKR levers. With a little patience, and some fine-tuning, it works great! Next, as Herb suggests, I'll attempt to set-up LKV and RKL... may need to purchase (or fabricate) rods to do this... hmmm... I'm really starting to like this push/pull stuff.... not quite as scary once you get at it. Thanks to everyone for your help... will keep in touch.... C6th next !
_________________
'73 Sho~Bud Pro II, '71 Emmons D-10, '75 Sho~Bud Maverick, Guyatone D-8, Session 500, Nashville 112, Sennheiser e609 |
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Whip Lashaway
From:
Monterey, Tenn, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 5:09 pm
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That a boy Trevor  Get right after it and never look back 
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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string
Excel S12 8x9 blue
Excel S12 8x9 black |
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