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Topic: Single 8, 5+5 Pipe Dream |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 1:58 pm |
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This started as a C6th, but I've moved it up a notch to D6th.
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P3 P4 P5 LKV LKR and RKL are all standard C6th changes moved up to D6th. My non-pedal experiments have convinced me that D6th can be used for Don Helms style playing (Hank Williams sound), where C6th sounds too dark.
RKR shifts the tuning to G2 (Gadd9), and from there P1, P2 and LKL provide your basic A B F changes. Releasing RKR sounds like the E lever.
RKR by itself provides all of the notes of the dobro G tuning.
RKR+P1+P2 provides the "high G" C6th non-pedal tuning.
LKL+P1 makes a low E 1-5-1 power chord for those hard rock riffs.
There is no commercial 8 string pedal steel in production today, so for now this is just a pipe dream of mine.
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ebb
From:
nj
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:37 pm
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a couple of things made me go the D route on my whitney and anapeg.
first i always loved the tone on jimmy days steel and strings with his permanent tuned to D.
i always thought E was too high for my ears but i understand the pull of E now that i play B6 which is a 4th lower than E9.
D seems to fit vocalists much better than E and pedals down G gives you cajun music.
i bet fulawaka would make one.
hes made a 6 string pedal steel. |
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Karlis Abolins
From:
(near) Seattle, WA, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 4:13 am
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b0b,
If you have a spare 10 string steel, just put 8 strings on it for the project. I have a 12 string that I currently have strung as a 10 string for an experimental tuning. If it works out, maybe someone will make an 8 string guitar.
Karlis |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 4:43 am
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| Jim Flynn at Lone Star Steel Guitars can make you one. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 4:56 am
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b0b, why aren't you lowering both D's to C# on RKL? Ooops, forget I asked that, I just answered my own question, that's like the knee lever change on a C6th which lowers the high C to B.....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 8:56 am Reality Check
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Does this idea make sense to anyone else? Or have I really gone off the deep end here?
I'm on the verge of spending major cash to have a custom guitar built. Any feedback pro or con would be greatly appreciated.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Don Walters
From:
Saskatchewan Canada
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 1:00 pm
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| b0b, what string gauges are you considering for that last post? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 3:01 pm
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| Probably just a regular E9th set without the E strings and the high G#, and then add a .050 for the low G. There aren't any radical pulls other than the G to E lower on the bottom string. |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 4:26 pm
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b0b, why not ask Todd Clinesmith?.
He could make you a work of art S8.
Lee |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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John Allison
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 7:55 pm
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B0b, you should talk to Jim Flynn. He's as good a guy as there is, his work is outstanding and his prices are quite fair. I've already been after him to build up an 8-stringer similar to this. Now that I have a PSG resto project in his shop, I'll have to wait about the 8-string "Uni". I hope to have something sort of comparable from the 10-string, though, and maybe it'll be my perfect axe.
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John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 9:11 pm
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| Looks like I have something lined up with another builder. |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2009 2:57 pm
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b0b, I really think you have something great here.
BTW, A standard Leavitt tuning transposed up a whole step is (low to high)D#,F#,A,C,D,E
If you could live without your 2nd string raise on your LNV and instead lower your 1st string to E, with pedal 2 you will have the Leavitt tuning also. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2009 5:02 pm
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| I'm not sure that it's practical to lower a high F# to E, Danny. That's a really long pull. Most changers can't do it. |
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Raybob Bowman
From:
S. Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2009 1:06 pm
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Hey Bob,
You mentioned wider string spacing. Doesn't that mean you are going to need a special casting for the changer that would have that wider spacing? It seems to me that's a standard spacing and to have something wider would either require a special casting or major machining for a changer to accommodate the wider spacing.
Just a thought.
Raybob
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Sierra U12 4+5 / 1933 Dobro / homemade Tele B-bender |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 Apr 2009 3:50 pm
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I believe that's correct, Raybob. With some designs it's easier than others. My Williams D-12 has wider string spacing than most Williams guitars, for example. I specified it to match my Sierra. Bill just used a thicker spacer between the changer fingers.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 12 Apr 2009 4:49 pm Re: Single 8, 5+5 Pipe Dream
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| b0b wrote: |
| ...There is no commercial 8 string pedal steel in production today, so for now this is just a pipe dream of mine. |
Get yourself a Fender S8 Cable Steel. Changing the copedant to what you suggest should be well within your talents.
You could do the same thing with a Multi-Kord, of course, in minutes, but you're stuck with the uncomfortable playing position.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2009 10:23 am
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I'm not any good at manufacturing parts, Alan. I have few tools. A Fender 400 has no knee levers, and it requires a fair amount of hacking to support double raises and double lowers.
I've ordered my custom "pipe dream" guitar from a well-known builder. It should be ready in about 3 months.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 13 Apr 2009 12:08 pm
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B0b, I hope it's all you wish for.
I cut my teeth on a Fender 1000 and only progressed (if that's the word) to an Emmons D-10 because the E9th wouldn't work well for studio use on an 8 String.
A couple of years ago I contacted almost ALL of the major manufacturers State-side (Carter, Emmons, MSA, and MANY more) with the request build me an S-8 OR D-8 using modern changer, pickup, etc. technology. I said "UNLIMITED BUDGET' and was rejected by all.
So I must ask, HOW did you manage to persuade someone to make you one ?
Am I to presume that the "Well Known Builder" is just a 'Hobyist" or is he/she top echelon ?
Basil.
_________________
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 7:49 pm Re: fine tuning
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| b0b wrote: |
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The G#'s are actually -12.5 cents. The number got cut off because of the grid size.
Does this D6/G idea make sense to anyone besides me? I can see positions for all sorts of C6th and E9th sounds in it, but it's way different from any "universal" approach I've ever seen.
It'll be 3 months before the guitar gets here. I'm playing it in my dreams at night, though. The idea has really got a hold of me.
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Last edited by b0b on 18 Apr 2009 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 8:47 pm
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B0b I think you have an excellent idea, and I hope you fellows don't mind me making a suggestion to some builders out there. 
That is to make a changer similar to the Harlin Bros. Multi-Kord, only instead of mounting it horizontally under the lids, put the changer vertically on either end of the guitar. Then it would be easy to mount the pedals across the front and also add knee levers as well. I never could understand why Harlins didn't go ahead and do it themselves and put more quality into their guitars in the process. (I was just a kid when I was with them.)
Then you could experiment all you wanted with any kind of a tuning you so desired and make the changes in a matter of minutes. Their string spacing is more to b0b's liking too.
This changer would be perfectly capable of raising or lowering each string with each pedal or knee lever to the full limits of string stretch so as to still be able to return back to the original tuning.
I think it would require fewer parts and the possibilities are unlimited.
If I live long enough and am still able, I may give it a try myself, beings I own 4 Multi-Kords now and have had the changers apart many times. And I have the small machine shop it would take to do it. I feel certain it can be done. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 8:58 pm
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Danny James, do I understand correctly that you actually worked for Harlin Bros.?  |
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