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Topic: A7, B7, C7, D7, E7, F7, G7 Chords on 6 string lap steel C6 |
Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 7:00 pm |
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| I have a Fender 6 string lap steel C6 tuning, CEGACE low to high. I'm new at this. How do you make these cords on a steel, the easy way if possible? |
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David Venzke
From:
SE Michigan, USA
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Jonathan Lam
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 7:57 pm
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you can play 2 frets down from root position on the E and C top strings while slanting the G string down a fret. That will give you a 9th chord. For example wif playing an f chord, you would have the the E and C strings on the 3rd fret (G-9th and Eb-b7th respectively) and the G string on the 2nd fret (A-3rd) giving you the main outline of a 9th chord.
If you play that same chord up a tritone or up 6 frets, its a 7th chord with alterations(From high to low notes become C# A and Eb then, the #5, 3rd and b7 respectively). |
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 8:27 pm
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| David and Jonathan: Thanks for your help. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Kurt Kikendall
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 3:42 am
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When starting out, an easy way to think about, and be able to easily find dominant 7th chords (for me anyway, your mileage may vary):
C6 contains the same notes as Am7. So if you play string 3, 4, 5 open, you have A7 (no 3). Move up to the 3rd fret, you have C7 (no 3). This chord form works very well for things like blues turnarounds, etc. If there are any backing tracks, rhythm guitar, etc, you will not miss the 3 and this is a very easy chord to play (no slants, split bar, etc).
If you come from a guitar background, imagine a barred Am7 chord shape. Now, at whatever fret you would play that, you can find a minor chord and a minor 7th chord on the lap steel. Think of a barred Am7 shape at the 3rd fret on guitar. This is a Cm7. On C6 lap steel 3rd fret is also Cm7. To get from m7 to 7, just omit the 3 (don't play 2nd or 6th strings).
Sorry if this is esoteric and not much use to you, but visualizing this way sure helped me when starting out because I knew where all these barred chords were on the fretboard from previous guitar experience.
(edit) - Oh, and I also recommend John Ely's chord finder linked above by Baz. Select C6 (Basic) tuning and search for C - Dominant 7th, leave everything else at defaults and you will see the very grips I was referring to. |
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 6:28 am
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| Baz and Kurt: Thank you very much. I've ben trying to go from like a C to C7 then F or C to D7 and then maybe G7 etc. and different things and it a snag. Thanks again to everybody for your help. |
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Ray Langley
From:
Northern California, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 8:30 am
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If you raise string 6 up to C#, you will have a full 4-note 7th chord on strings 6-5-4-3.
A7 is open strings and at the 12th fret.
G7 is at the 10th fret.
B7 is at the 2nd fret, etc.
_________________
Bluesman's Epitath: "Didn't get up this morning"!
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/LapSteelGuitar/ |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 8:49 am
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| If you want to get a real dom7th chord your tuning has to have a real dom7th interval in it. A straight C6 does not have that. As was said you're only gonna be able to get incomplete fragments. The best comprimise with only 6 strings is to tune your 6th string from C up a half step to C# like previously mentioned. This gives you a hybrid tuning of C6 on top and an A7 on the bottom. You'll still have an Am7 too. The only drawback to this arrangement is the lack of a low root C note in the tuning - but you can still get that note with a slant. I think for what you're trying to do you should go to 8 strings at the earliest opportunity and use a C6/7 or an E13. Life will get a whole lot easier trust me. |
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Roger Palmer
From:
Rossendale, UK
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 9:33 am
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I had this problem a few weeks back and I found Jon Ely's chord locater the best solution. I can now play all the 7ths I need within 2 frets of each other. They all involve slants though...but thats the fun of lap steel...the more I play C6th the more I like it!
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 9:52 am
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| Roger: I found John Ely's chord locator and that will be a big help, thanks. Baz, I sent John a thank you note too. Ray: I've thought about the C# change but didn't know what other problems it would create for my little peanut brain right now. Michael, two more strings would probably make my eyes cross, 6 strings is keeping me hopping. Thanks Guys, you've been a big help. |
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Jonathan Lam
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 6:57 pm
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| A "real" dom 7 has the 3rd and b7th in it, root is usually negligible because the bass player will be covering it. I don't understand what is a "real" dom7 voicing? |
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 8:05 pm
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| Jonathan: I don't know, maybe I need to take Michael's advise and turn loose of some money and get an 8 string. If not, I've got to add some more memory to my head. I've spent all day trying to learn Mansion on the Hill, and haven't got that down yet. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 12:58 pm
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I kinda hate to say this, but I think you're better off using rootless chords and other fragments to get dominant voicings rather than retuning. Learning how to pull those fragments in the "heat of battle" so-to-speak will increase your musical abilities an immense amount.
Now, one of the ways I been using lately to get dominant chords is to ignore the 7th and play a 6th instead  Then I just slide the 6th by itself a 1/2 step into the seventh to grab the flavor.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 5:59 pm
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I don't know what sort of version of Mansion on the Hill you're trying to put together but most of the time you'll hear that played on an E9 pedal steel with all it's suspensions and pedaled interval inversions etc. That's not to say you couldn't play a nice version on a lap steel with a fixed tuning. In fact it should lay real easy on a 6-string C6. It'd just sound kinda Hawaiian that's all.
But yeah - if you stick with this instrument and take it halfway seriously,you'll end up with at least 8 strings - trust me. Might as well do it sooner than later. You're gonna have to learn to slant yer ass off too so get used to that idea.
I can get ya a pretty good deal on one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYJKYWtbVw&feature=related |
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:14 pm
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| The easiest way ,for me,is to pull the 6th up 1/2 tone behind the bar.. |
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Josh Cho
From:
New York, NY (orig. Honolulu, HI)
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 6:25 pm
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Here's some EZ advice IMHO: You don't need slants to make nice sounding Dominant 7th chords~~~just take the 1st and 2nd strings of your C6 down a whole step (2 frets) from the chord you need the Dominant 7th of.
For example:
G7 is on 5th fret
A7 is on 7th fret
B7 is on 9th fret
...etc and so forth
And I must agree with Twayne, you shouldn't retune your guitar just to get certain chords when perfectly good vesions are already there in C6
_________________
Lap-n-Console Steel Guitar Lessons |
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Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 1:59 am
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| I'd go along with retuning the bottom C string up to C#. This gives you a big dom 7th chord on the bottom four strings, and a diminished chord on the bottom 3 if you're into jazzy changes. Also - you don't need to go to 8-strings yet - or at all. Find your way round the 6-strings first... |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 10:37 am
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| Jonathan Lam wrote: |
| A "real" dom 7 has the 3rd and b7th in it, root is usually negligible because the bass player will be covering it. I don't understand what is a "real" dom7 voicing? |
Key of C, no sharps or flats:
G7
G - root
B - 3rd
D - 5th
F - 7th
G-B = maj 3rd
G-D = 5th
G-F = min 7th
B-D = min 3rd
B-F = b5th (tritone)
D-F = min 3rd
If the bass player is playing the root (G), then you can leave that out of the chord and play a Bdim: B-D-F
If you leave out the 5th (D) as well you are left with the 3rd and 7th, which is B-F -- a tritone or b5th/#4th.
So, on a G7 chord all you really need to play is the B-F and you will spell a G7th chord with the bass player.
The 2 notes that spell the "quality" of a chord are the 3rd and the 7th. However, this does NOT mean you can just play the 3-7 fifth on each chord and have it sound good. This is called parallel 5ths and is frowned upon in voice-leading technique.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Apr 2009 3:09 pm
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| OK guys and dolls: The Mansion on the Hill I refered to is from Don Helms steel guitar song book. It shows his tuning E13 but says Mr. Helms called it E6. The tuning diagram is G# E C# B G# E C# A high to low. There are two chords in it E7 and B7. This is what initiated my original question. Then, exploiting my ignorence, I tried to work it out with C6 tuning. Anyway seems to be a topic of interest and I thank each and everyone of you offering me options. Michael, your still trying to get into my pocket book, you rascal. |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 3:05 pm
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Tune your sixth string up to C#. You then have C6/A7 tuning, with a full 7th chord on your low four strings.
Here are some 7th chords that involve open strings:
A7: Play your top four strings with string two barred at the first fret.
C7: play your top four strings with string three barred at the first fret.
D7: play strings 2,4 and 5 with string 2 open and strings 4 and 5 barred at the second fret.
E7: Play your top three strings with the second and third strings barred at the second fret.
F#7: Play your top three strings with strings two and three barres at the first fret.
Here are some other seventh chords that involve bar slants. I am giving you the C7 placements for these slants as it is C6 tuning. Just move your bar to get the same voicings for different keys:
Forward slant with the nose of your bar over strings two and three over fret 7, string five is over fret 6.
Forward slant with string two over fret 10, string four over fret 9 and string five over fret 8.
Reverse slant with string 2 over fret four, string four over fret 5 and string five over fret six.
I hope this helps!
Chris |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 3:11 pm
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Michael,
Let's not forget "Mansion On The Hill" was made a hit by Hank Williams with Jerry Byrd playing a six string Rickenbacher tuned to C6!
Chris |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 3 Apr 2009 4:10 pm
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| Steve Duke wrote: |
| I've spent all day trying to learn Mansion on the Hill, and haven't got that down yet. |
Steve, this is how the solo for A Mansion On The Hill lays out in C6, which is how Jerry Byrd played it (forgive the sloppiness, it's a long-scale guitar):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woCz4P1ta1E
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Steve Duke
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2009 2:16 pm
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| Thanks Chris. More things to work on. Are you still playing with BR549? Nice playing. I think Ray had the same suggestion. Mike, sounded pretty good to me. Thanks for you alls help. |
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Jonathan Lam
From:
Brooklyn, NY
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Posted 4 Apr 2009 2:59 pm
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
[quote=
The 2 notes that spell the "quality" of a chord are the 3rd and the 7th. However, this does NOT mean you can just play the 3-7 fifth on each chord and have it sound good. This is called parallel 5ths and is frowned upon in voice-leading technique. |
I was referring to the comment that you need the root to play a"real" dom 7 voicing. Also, regarding the voice leading aspect every guitar player alive then is using parallel 5th when they are moving from bar chord to bar chord. What about during a blues? non functional 7ths all over the place and most guitar players will be using parallel fifths. Ideally i am sure that there are better options to make the voice leading better but mostly playing rock and roll and country music voice leading is not going to matter as much on a chord instrument. In classical voice leading the sound that is frowned upon is perfect fifths and fourths, not tritones. |
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