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Topic: Have you ever EVER felt like..... |
C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 7:17 am |
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eatun' a "goatburger" and takun' a whip and then, literally chokun' someone half to..........?
Watch this video and then if'n ya kin, answer this question fer me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZgLDUDn3Fc&NR=1
"Why do they take the time to show a piano player play all of those absolutely awesome licks; why do they show a singer sing that awesome "back up" that Patty Lovelace did; why do they show Vince lipsynching every incredible and vocal nuance of what he did on the recording..........
And then come in late and leave early to one of THE most tasteful; THE most appropos; AND the most amazing PSG turnarounds in all of recorded history?
Will someone jes' answer me that question. Inquiring minds 'wonts' ta know!
Oops. Not necessary, I KNOW why. And I repeat the opening statement. 
Oh well 
Now then, and afore ya even think about it,
Remember, even Jesus took a whip and drove the money changers out of the temple as he said,
"You will NOT make my Father's house a den of theives!"
carl
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 7:37 am
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But, doesn't she have a lovely neck?
It's just another example of a typical music video.
Lee |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 7:39 am
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I'll pass on the goatburger, thanks.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Ken Mullett
From:
Bremen, Indiana, USA and Sarasota, FL
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 7:50 am
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Carl, I watched this video and I agree 100% with what you stated.This of course is not an isolated case.
The only thing I can figure out is that the people who call the camera shots have no idea of the incredible skill and talent it takes to produce such a beautiful sound.If that is the case, it calls into question the ability of the producer or directors to decern excellence in music.
Ken |
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Cameron Tilbury
From:
Peterborough, England, UK
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 8:08 am
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Interestingly, I was watching a rerun of Cold Case the other night--it was about a murder of a singer/songwriter. One of the prime suspects was the steel player!!! Every clip of the band, they kept showing the steel player and his S10 Emmons.
It turned out that the steel player was the killer. There they go...stereotyping us all!  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 8:28 am
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In all fairness I would have to give the video high marks where the PSG was concerned, compared to most videos.
The PSG was shown during the turn around with the hands and the steel slightly out of focus and shadowed, in keeping with the rest of the clip. It was a piano intro and ride therefore featured predominantly in the clip.
If I had a doubt here it might be that they would have more than likely not shown the PSG at all except that
The PSG turn was long enough and good enough that it just could not be left out of the video. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 9:23 am
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| Quote: |
| This of course is not an isolated case |
Very sad, but very true.
It has been going on for a very long time. And there are always mitigating circumstances which could excuse such blatant discrimination.
But....................................... for many of us that have studied if for decades, it is apparent that it's not just an oversight in all too many cases.
There can be NO other reason for this blatancy, when one adds up all the facts and the inordinate number of times it happens.
Notice the following link to prove my point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duqO3LYzYgY&feature=related
Mind you, this was taken IN Nashville (the home of "country music") by seasoned "country music" professional cameramen and directors, etc, etc. Yet they too fell prey to a force that causes such childish immature failure to waste half of the steel's break; AND if that was not enough they cut back to the singers, BEFORE the steel break had finished.
Totally UN professional in EVERY nuance of the word! YET, they had NO problem in being ON the fiddle players from beginning to end of their kickoff and break. Shameful!
Take the aforementioned Vince Gil video itself. Notice that they went so far as to EVEN include the closing few notes of the "end" playing of the piano player, BUT failed totally to shoot Paul's incredible ending lick, which by the way was instrumental (pun intended!) in MAKING the song a hit, IMO. There is simply NO excuse for it.
And again, "oh well!"
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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G Strout
From:
Carabelle, Florida
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 12:26 pm
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| Nothing to do with the steel.... I agree with you there. But, I believe that the stunning back ground vocals (and neck) are done by Dawn Sears and not Patty L. What ever happened to Dawn...is she still with V.G.? |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 12:46 pm
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Carl, pedal steel is so connected to country music that I believe it is an intentional effort
by producers and crew to get away from the "country sound".
I don't agree with it either; but you will notice all, so called, modern country music tries to distinguish
itself from the traditional style of country as much as possible.
I'm certain many will not agree, but the pedal steel seems to lend itself to the "country sound" more than the steel guitar without pedals,
EVEN THOUGH ANY STYLE OF PLAYING CAN BE DONE ON EITHER ONE.
Think about this __ and I believe it:
If Jerry Byrd had been making the turnaround on that video with Patty and Vince
he would have been given better treatment than the pedal steel guitarist in that video. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 1:14 pm
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| Quote: |
| But, I believe that the stunning back ground vocals (and neck) are done by Dawn Sears and not Patty L. |
You are correct. I hope I did not give the impression that I thought it was Patty. For there is not a semblance of similarity between the two. But out of respect to her, I just listed her name because she was that angelic voice that helped make that record a hit. I commend and laud whoever made the decision to use her. If it was indeed Vince, then he is indeed a very wise man.
She is also one of the most beautiful women on this planet IMO.
Also, I doubt if that was the same piano player. And the same goes for the steel guitarist's hands. It may have been Paul Franklin, (who was the steel player on the record), but I am not sure.
| Quote: |
Carl, pedal steel is so connected to country music that I believe it is an intentional effort
by producers and crew to get away from the "country sound".
I don't agree with it either; but you will notice all, so called, modern country music tries to distinguish
itself from the traditional style of country as much as possible. |
Yes, I agree. However, if you will view that second video of Ray Price, this was pure country in every respect, in those days. And they still had NO clue (apparently) where the steel man was. Yet they KNEW where the fiddle players were and ya 'caint' git any countrier than Tommy Jackson and his partner (I do not know his name)!
It is THIS that I have the biggest problem with. It seems like EVERY cameraman and EVERY tecnical director on this planet KNOWS what a piano, bass, guitar, etc, etc, sounds like; but many have NOT a clue where to go when a steel player takes a break.
I have watched it 1,000's of times over 60 yrs. And it has never changed. Yes, sometimes they are johnny-on-the-spot. But in MOST cases the videos I linked show precisely what has been happening for all these years, more or less. And I am offended by it.
Worse, I believe with all my heart I KNOW where the problem originated and continues to be promulgated, but for fear of getting flamed from here to eternity, it is best not to say it.
Thanks for your posts dear friends,
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 1:22 pm
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It's Matraca Berg lip synching to Patty's harmonies.
Tony Brown produced "When I call your name" and I believe it's him in the video.
Atleast, Paul is in the video. YAY!
Last edited by Theresa Galbraith on 26 Mar 2009 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 1:34 pm Re: Have you ever EVER felt like.....
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| C Dixon wrote: |
...And then come in late and leave early to one of THE most tasteful; THE most appropos; AND the most amazing PSG turnarounds in all of recorded history?
Will someone jes' answer me that question. Inquiring minds 'wonts' ta know! |
Uhh...probably because they realize that 99.99% of the people that may watch the video could care less about a steel guitar.
It's a Vince Gill (vocal) video, not a steel or pedal steel advertisement. 
Pedal steelers (many of them) have their own videos, and I don't believe any of them feature Vince Gill, so that kinda makes us even.  |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 4:24 pm
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Carl, another way to view the situations of the two videos:
The V.G. video was probably planned artistically, for the camera to capture Vince and the girl staring out the window at that point.
The Ray Price, Crazy Arms live recording was, I'm sure, a mistake.
They probably only had two cameras. One was kept on Ray.
The other cameraman wasn't paying attention and panned late to Jack Evans on that quad Stringmaster.
Imagine if the camera operators on these two videos had to work the Lawrence Welk show.
I watch the rebroadcast of this show sometimes on PBS-TV.
The cameras switch or pan often to other featured instruments and hardly ever miss a cue. |
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Tommy Shown
From:
Denham Springs, La.
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 4:24 pm
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| Edward Meisse wrote: |
| I'll pass on the goatburger, thanks. |
Hey Ed, I'm from Louisiana. By way of the Bluegrass state and In the 42 years that I have lived here, I've learned that cajuns will eat anything that doesn't eat them first.And Goat burger Hmmmm! tastes like chicken. I've been adopted, I've eaten things down here, that people back home would NEVER eat.
Things like (but not limited to) crawfish, alligator, chupique(pronounced shoepick for all you yankees)boudin (boodan again for all you yankees) and the famous boudin balls, nutrea rat.LOL
Tommy Shown |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 6:50 pm
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It's a true miracle that the steel player was shown at all. I thought it was very generous what little was shown, actually. I thought when I turned the video on that there would be no footage at all. There's more of Mr. Franklin in this video than there are of steel players in most videos. I can see your point, Carl, but I think this video is actually one of the better examples of steel exposure. Sad, but true.
Also, consider that the steel is one of only two instruments they show at all. No drummer, bass player or guitarist. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 8:20 pm
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The video is the video, which is to present a visual concept. The music is the music, and it presents a musical concept. I cannot fathom how anybody could think that the steel guitar was slighted in any way. Not only is it all over the mix, there was a closeup of the hands to highlight it. No other instruments, just the steel guitar.
If I wanted to look all day to find fault with this production, I would not be able to. It's such a gorgeous tune that presents the instrument we love so much in its finest form - what more do you all want  |
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 11:31 pm
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| BTW, that was Paul Franklin playing the Steel. |
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Tommy Shown
From:
Denham Springs, La.
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 6:16 pm
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All kidding asside Nick, Paul did do some outstanding picking on that song and video. That was pure Paul, there.
Tommy |
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Mac McGhee
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 7:00 pm
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| Dave muggett: I am amazed at the knowledge you have and I see post that states an opinion and you have a negative comeback. One see what he sees and hears what he hears. If one says he felt that the steel was slighted, that is the way he sees it. I've read many of your post and I guess we are all wrong but you. Think before you blast away. Tough skin is one thing but come on now! |
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Mac McGhee
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 7:01 pm
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| Should have been Mudgett, Sorry about that. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 6:05 pm
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As for camera men not knowing, I experienced the same myself at the Last Brolly and Friends concert at the Birmingham Symphony Hall ..
Complete with some awful "Out of Sync" editing..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz-KQDN4svI |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 7:04 pm
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| Mac McGhee wrote: |
| Dave muggett: I am amazed at the knowledge you have and I see post that states an opinion and you have a negative comeback. One see what he sees and hears what he hears. If one says he felt that the steel was slighted, that is the way he sees it. I've read many of your post and I guess we are all wrong but you. Think before you blast away. Tough skin is one thing but come on now! |
Mac - I didn't blast anybody or anything. I just stated my opinion, as did Carl. I have immense respect for him, but I just don't understand how the steel was remotely slighted in this video. The film is not a live band shot - the entire concept is different. This has nothing to do with the cameraman not knowing on whom he or she should do a closeup. But even if I disagree with this one point - I fully respect Carl's views. He is a treasure of knowledge about the steel guitar, and I truly mean no offense.
As far as your ad hominem comments about me - I do not remotely think I'm a negative voice on this forum. If I had a dollar for every post that voiced a negative (and sometimes even downright hostile) opinion about someone else's idea of music, arts, or something else which is purely a matter of personal taste, I would be a very rich man indeed. To be honest, I think that's the main "negativity" issue on this forum. Pardon me if I occasionally dissent from that level of negativity.
I think it's reasonable for all of us to express our opinions, even when they're negative comments about someone else or their music. But it is not reasonable to stifle respectful disagreement with those opinions - it works both ways. I always try to temper my language to be respectful, but I will continue to directly state my ideas as I see them.
My opinions, of course. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 9:46 pm
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Geez, it's a Video, with a capital V! What do you expect??!!
Live video of musical performances is one thing, but the entire concept of the "Video" has been working against **music** since the dark day some moron dreamed it up!
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Theresa Galbraith
From:
Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2009 10:28 am
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| I wish I thought of it! |
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