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Topic: How does a compensator work |
Tomi Graso
From:
Sydney / Australia
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Posted 17 Mar 2009 3:44 am |
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Hello folks, just a question...i have installed "Franklin" change on the 4th pedal on my Emmons le Grande II and strings 5 & 6 are not returning perfectly in tune or back to it's original pitch. Would compensator solve the problem here ?
I am just puzzled as i have no idea how compensator works and what it does to the mechanism....
Also are they easy to install ??
Can anyone please help me with this !
Your input is much appreciated !
Thank you kindly ! Tomi........ |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 17 Mar 2009 4:34 am
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A compensator will not fix a return problem.
I have a compensator and how it works is, When I engage my A pedal and E raise change, my 6th string G# goes flat so my E to F lever has a extra rod that pulls the 6th string G# back up to a G# and is tuned with a hex nut.
I would talk to someone that can help you set up the new pedal.
Many times a fix or mod to a steel seems simple and then becomes complicated .
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Tony Rankin
From:
Land O’ Lakes, FL
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Posted 17 Mar 2009 7:40 am Yes, they may help!
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The type of compensator Ken describes is a "Tuning Compensator" and would not help your situation.
However, "Return Compensators" will help and are not that difficult to install. You could get the parts from Emmons or an Emmons dealer.
Read this for more information about compensators. And, I had them on a LeGrande III for the very purpose you described.
http://www.steelguitar.com/askbud/askbud17.htm
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Tony Rankin
Last edited by Tony Rankin on 17 Mar 2009 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 17 Mar 2009 7:47 am
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That's one kind of compensator, to "true up" an interval. The 6th string G# is tuned a hair flat to be in tune as the 3rd of the open E chord, but when you go to a A pedal/F lever combination, it's now the 5th of the triad, and needs to be tuned a little higher to be in tune. So you add a pull to true it up.
Another example is with the 7th string... when it's in tune as a 5th when combined with your Eb lever, it's out of tune as a 6th with your AB pedal combination. So you add another pull to your A pedal to true it up. Since the pull is very small, you don't even feel it, but you sure can hear it.
At least that's what I do on one of my gtrs.
There are return compensators, also. I've seen them on LeGrandes and Zums. Maybe someone will chime in about them. |
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Tomi Graso
From:
Sydney / Australia
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Posted 18 Mar 2009 2:45 am
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Ken , Tony and Skip , thank you so much guys for your kind reply to my post. I was kind'a stuck with this issue of strings not returning to the original pitch. I have a lot better picture of how things should work now.
Once again , Thank you so much for your input guys !
Your dedication to this wonderful instrument goes beyond.....
Cheers , Tomi.... |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 18 Mar 2009 3:33 pm
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| The return compensaters on guitars I've owned or worked on are just a pull rod anchored to a solid bar under the guitar and going thru the changer holes like a normal pull. I think Bruce may use a little oring or two between the nylon nut and the tuner to sort of pad it. Mine work good. Normally used on the forth string on E9 and the third string on C6. Usually for strings that raise and lower. I also put one on the sixth string split on my Zums. |
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Tomi Graso
From:
Sydney / Australia
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Posted 19 Mar 2009 1:49 am
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Thanks Danny, much appreciate !
So in the end compensators need to be tuned only once in a while eg. when changing strings etc...
Last edited by Tomi Graso on 22 Apr 2022 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2009 5:27 pm
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Return compensators make use of the characteristics of tiny neoprene "O" rings on a fixed pull rod, in a "Lower" hole in the changer.
To tune it, follow this procedure:
1. Back off the compensator nylon tuner.
2. Tune the string to open pitch.
3. Lower the string and tune it to pitch.
4. When you let off the lower, the string comes back sharp*. Then adjust the compensator nylon tuner slowly, until the string is once again in open pitch. Once adjusted properly, it rarely needs to be re-adjusted.
A number of PSG's use these today. If I am not mistaken Emmons' first came up with this option on their "LeGrandes".
As mentioned, it is made up of a fixed crossrod, and four parts for each string, that you need to compensate:
A. Bellcrank.
B. Pullrod w/"E" clip.
C. The critical "O" ring.
E. Nylon tuner.
carl
* Note: This is one of the main advantages of why Keyless guitars came into being. Since they have little (if any) of the above problem often called "Hysterisis"
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Dag Wolf
From:
Bergen, Norway
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Posted 22 Mar 2009 5:51 pm
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Carl is as always right. 
So there are typically two different compensators.
The pedal compensator or tuning compensator that I guess is most used on the 7th string to drop it so your AB pedal will be in tune with it.
Then there is the return compensator that is mounted to a fixed cross shaft or the front/ back appron strap (new Zum) and goes on to the lowest hole of the lowering finger with an O-ring between nylon tuner and lowering finger.
If I'm not mistaking Paul Franklin Sr. are known to come up with the return compensator idea when he worked for Sho-Bud.
If this is true it would have been before the Legrande. Again, I'm not 100% sure of this. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2009 7:37 pm
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Ty Dag
There are 2 other possible "compensators" used on modern PSG's today.
One is a compensator, to counteract a detuning problem when a player tries to "split" a string. IE: lower a string a whole tone and at the same time raise the string a half tone. There are three methods of doing this compensation to counteract for the "detuned" maximum lower, when you tune the split.
1. Allen set screw method.
2. Extra raise rod method.
3. Both.
The 4th type of "compensator" that the following guitars (that I know of) have. And that is "anti-cabinet drop" compensators:
1. Emmons' LeGrande III's on either or both necks. Expensive optional extra cost.
2. Remington. Not sure if this is an optional cost item or not. Or whether they still have it.
3. ZumSteel. Again I do not know if this is an optional cost item
4. Excel. Comes standard on the first 3 pedals on all Excel Superb models.
While some players are not bothered by strings lowering in pitch when other strings are raised, many players are. Thus the reason for "Anti-cabinet drop" compensators, also called "anti-detuners.
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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