C6th Question about Pedal 8

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I don't use pedal 8 much. If I were to lower the 2nd string E to Eb on it, would that change interfere with the more "standard" uses of the pedal?
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Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

I raise the first string to Eb.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I don't seem to get up to the 2nd string when using P8, but am not positive if others do. I have the pedal that is the opposite of P6 (string 2 to D# and String 6 to F) and also a pedal to lower string 5 from G to F and Raise string 1 to D#. Now, if you are one who raises string 3 to C#, it would interfere with using P8 & the C to C# raise giving you an expanded (and I mean FAT) A7 from string 10 to string 2. But that is one of those things you could do without. It's nice (I used to raise string 3) but I chose to give up the third string raise for a change I use more often.

At My gig tonight, I will mess around with pedal 8 and see if I ever touch string 2 and let you know.

Dan Galysh · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA

Well, b0b, it looks like you'll attain a sharp nine chord with a diminished 5 on top with string 2. I'm not sure if you'd miss the straight 5 note on top or not. I choose to lower string 2 to a D, with a half stop at Eb, on C6 LKL.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

C6 tunings that have the 1st string tuned to D usually have a D# lever, so I am not sure if it would be a bad thing. Also, since most of what pedal 8 does is so far down, it probably could be negotiated.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

B0b..

You might want to state here what you sent me in your email. This will save a lot of the answers about jazz chords, whether you should lower string 2, raise string 1 etc...

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I don't have that handy, but the main idea is an 8 string copedent high E to low F. There's no D string.

The P8 changes are on a knee lever, raising C to C# and lowering F to E. I'd like to add a high E to Eb on the same lever. My question is:

Will the high Eb mess up any of the standard, often used P8 licks or chords?

I don't usually use really wide grips but some people do. I'm not trying to get a wild jazz chord - just trying to milk more usefulness out of my "P8" knee lever.
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Jim Robbins · From: Ontario, Canada

What do you want to do with the high Eb? Now you've got me thinking about it -- I have a high G and no D on my C6 neck and a lower to D might be pretty useful.

You're obviously giving up the big aug 9 (Hendrix) chord. Another thing you'd be giving up is if you ever use pedal 8 for playing scales in parallel 10ths on the low C and high E strings.

You can get the same closed diminished triad you'd get with the high Eb on A C and E strings by going to the G A & C strings with pedal 5 lowing G to F#, but maybe you've got other things in mind for the Eb.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Here it is:<center>

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The idea is that RKR switches it into "F9th mode", with LKL, P1 and P2 supplying the standard E9th changes. Everything else is fairly standard C6th.

I just thought that a high Eb might come in handy.
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Jim Robbins · From: Ontario, Canada

That's interesting. That's a lot in 8 strings.

You don't have to worry about losing the parallel 10ths since you have the C# on LKV.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The pseudo-E9th changes are more "Americana" than "Nashville" - just the basic A-B-E-F with no high 3rd or chromatic strings. Also, with this range there are several low major chord positions that should be very useful in rock.

The only thing missing from standard C6th (other than the two outside strings) is the P4 pedal that raises both A's to B. I think I can do without that one.
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C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

b0b,

I think you would lose very little if anything. It has been my observance that the strings MOSTLY used when the 8th pedal is engaged are strings 3 thru 10 (D-10's). But I could be wrong. But then, I do not use the C6 tuning in the way most do. (As stated before, I use the tuning the way I BELIEVE Jerry would have used it, IF he had gone to pedals.)

So my pedal 8 is mostly used for a V7 chord (2 frets down) or I7 (3 frets up) with a big bottom. Rarely use it as a "boowah" pedal.

As such, I would not have lost ANY thing doing what you are trying to do. Try it, you may like it!

I am intriqued that you are doing what you are doing on pedals 1 and 2. I did that for 30 yrs on my D-10 on the C neck. Except for Bob Maikel I have never known of any other player to do it.

And I did exactly what you did on your RKR.

I did this because the FIRST time I ever sat down to a D-10, I felt lost without having the flexibility we have on pedals A and B while playing the E9th neck. AND that F major root on string 6 (string 5 on your guitar). One example is not having the next "within scale" major third on strings 3 and 4 (2 and 3 on your guitar). I can't live without this on the C neck.

Even the C to C# raise will not get it, IMO.

I have never NOT needed these changes often, while playing on the C neck. This is one of the reasons I play universal. Since that ability has always been inherrent on the standard U-12 copedent.

carl

Note: If I bought a pedal steel guitar setup just like your suggested copedent, I would do everything you are doing with the following exceptions, for whatever it's worth.

1. Move pedal 4 to RKL

2. Move changes on pedal 5 to pedal 4.

3. Move changes on LKR to pedal 5.

4. Move changes on RKL to LKR

By having the Eb on string 5 on RKL, you have that all important "root" (equivalant "D" note on string 9 on E9th necks) so you can use it with pedals 1 and 2. In addition you can use the C to B change WITH RKR. Awesome IMO.

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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Interesting idea, Carl. I think this is what you're saying:
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Thing is, I'm real used to having the C to B lower on RKL. Reflexes are important. Plus I think it would be useful with LKL, changing the rootless D7 to D6.

Do you see any downside to swapping RKL and LKR?
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C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Now that Bob posted his idea, I thought I would post my answer to his email on this.

I played around with P8 last night and didn't find any instance where I hit string 2. Unless there's some jazz chord that uses it, I don't see a problem. Really interesting tuning. Back in my early days (Steel Guitar West club days) I had a similar setup on my guitar. I had knees that raised the A's to Bb and one to raise my top C to D, and as you know, if you raise your E to F, you have the same type of situation as E9 pedals AB down and get the same licks. I used to do Bud's Bounce on C6th but it sounded like I was on E9th (except for some solo work).

You never cease to amaze me how your mind just keeps thinking of new stuff to try. This tuning sounds nice and compact but powerful. Will love to hear it if you go through with it

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