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Topic: Barney Kessel Talks About His Guitar |
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 9:22 am |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4wjpnG91LQ
Given the huge volume of frenzied discussion about "Which is the best pedal steel?" on this forum, this would perhaps be more useful in the pedal steel section as a discussion item about what constitutes a musician's "correct choice of instrument", but technically it belongs here, so I'll leave it here.
I have never heard truer or more profound words uttered about practical musical criteria and the critical and intimate connection between a musician and his or her instrument. Note that he does not remotely argue that what you play doesn't matter, but focuses like a laser on this critical relationship.
In this culture of excess baggage and obsession about "stuff", I have to smack myself in the face every once in a while to remind myself about these ideas, which are obvious but often obscured by trivialities. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 9:35 am
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"When I hear it played back on the record, it sounds exactly like I heard it in my mind"
Maybe that's what everyone who plays music is looking for. I know I have one guitar like that and, guess what, it's my favorite. 
Thanks for the post Dave.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 10:16 am
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Makes you wonder why he endorsed several different guitar companies who made instruments bearing his name. Must have taken the money and ran.
There was a period of time where the old Gibson ES350 that he is playing had tape covering up the Gibson logo on the headstock. Don't know why Barney felt like he needed to do that, after all he is not really interested in the guitar right???.....
He said in some interviews that the guitar had been changed around from what it originally was and therefore was not a Gibson any more.....weird. A rose by any other name....
I love his playing. He attacks the instrument with mostly downstrokes and gets a real biting bluesy sound. I saw him play live. One of the greatest. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 10:39 am
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Sure - Barney endorsed both guitar and amp companies, but as far as I know, he played that 46 ES-350 from at least the early 50s onward. A huge number of musicians endorse equipment that they may or may not use. To make a living, he also played on tons of commercials and non-jazz studio projects. I don't think it diminishes his level of intensity or greatness as a jazz musician, which I believe is fundamentally how he defined himself.
On the taped headstock - I don't know for sure, but it is quite possible that the companies he endorsed insisted that he not be seen playing another brand in concert. I think that's pretty common. I have even seen players put an endorsed brand label on the guitar that they prefer to play. I don't see how any of this affects the relationship of a musician to the actual instrument whatsoever.
Yup, Barney's attack was unique. I view him as the progenitor of the "sweep pickers" with that sweeping downstroke that he often used to sweep figures. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 10:53 am
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| Didn't your BS detector go off when he said that the technology of the magnet and bridge is unavailable today? Even the shape of the plastic knob is a precious secret known only to the ancients, an arcane high technology lost forever now that winds of time have blown the sands of antiquity to the four corners of the globe. |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
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| That's a pretty old interview, recorded before aftermarket Charlie Christian pickups were being made, so he wasn't completely wrong. He's not real conversant in technical arcana (love the bit about the special "radio knobs"), which I suppose serves to underscore his concern with the function of his gear over its form. That bit about not wanting to have to think about the equipment, rather just use it as a tool to express musical ideas, has always stuck with me. Especially the night before a gig when I'm cramming in a fret job on a particular guitar I want to play, when I have a half dozen others that would serve just as well. Sheesh. Did someone mention excess baggage? I love that Barney played that one ES-350 for pretty much his entire career. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 12:33 pm
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I don't think anybody has made a very close copy of the Charlie Christian pickup since the 30s. To my knowledge, materials in any modern reissues are different. I would gladly stand corrected, but even looking at what I think is the closest copy I've seen, Jason Lollar's version - http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=charlie-christian-pickups - the maghet material is conventional alnico 5:
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| 38-gauge wire, large coil, like the originals. Big round tone retaining clear top end. Uses modern Alnico 5 magnets. Available with two point and three point mounting systems. Two-point mount requires 4.25" between braces. |
But his comment was certainly true in the 70s when I believe this clip was done, before the age of careful reissues. I agree that one could make a very close copy - but I don't think anybody does due to the cost of the magnetic materials.
He didn't say the material in the bridge was different. He said it was designed similarly to a fine violin bridge, and I think he was correct that even most archtop guitar bridges at that time were not.
The point about the knobs was not mainly the material - it was about the utility of the geometry of the chickenhead knobs, which BTW are used a lot now in vintage replica guitars. I've put 'em on some of my guitars over the years.
He never said any of this "technology" was lost, just not commonly used, and I think he was correct about that. With vintage-mania of the last 20 years, that has changed somewhat, but not (what I thought were) his main points about the relationship between the player and the instrument. If anything, I think many, many players are even more obsessed with "instrument as commodity" or "instrument as cultural icon". Barney didn't say the instrument doesn't matter, but centers concern about those details on relevant issues which I think are frequently lost on many players. Just my opinion. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 11 Mar 2009 11:14 pm
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I've quoted this before, and I think more than once, but to me it's a great and succinct statement, from Dean Parks, in a thread several years ago:
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I think that each player has his own ideal sound, and he tweaks everything within reach to make that tone, on any instrument he's playing.
It may take a lot of "doing" to get that tone on some instruments, and that extra effort may cramp his technique considerably. He MAY find an instrument, and/or an amplification chain, which gets him there with less strain, or maybe even with some unexpected added inspiration (it could be sonic, or ergonomic). If so, he wants that instrument, because of the bottom line: he finds he can make his best music with it.
Otherwise you wouldn't have great players be so extremely concerned with their equipment.
I also think that inspiring equipment breeds inspired technique.
Equipment is not everything, but it's not nothing.
-dean- |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 12 Mar 2009 12:20 am
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Dave, there was a discussion awhile ago about repop CC PU's. These guys in UK do a very good job:
http://www.ccpickups.co.uk/index.html
I haven't heard one in person, but my luthier has one at his workshop. He hasn't mounted it to any guitar yet. I wanted to put it on my D'Angelico copy he built but the bracing did not allow it. I ended up using Jason's tele version of the CC and I'm really happy with it. I even managed to score NOS Gibson CC plastic top cover for it from ebay, so it looks a bit more like the real thing. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 12 Mar 2009 2:52 am
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Jussi, thanks for the link. I missed that thread, must have been real busy when it was active. I may just have to try one of those. I had a pretty beat '37 ES-150 for a long time, and sold it with plans to get a nicer one, and then didn't do it. I thought about swiping the pickup and replacing it with a reissue before I sold it, but couldn't bring myself to do it. But those pickups have a sound that is very hard to duplicate. Me being a real CC fan (as well as a big Kessel fan and Bonehead), that sound is one of my tonal centers. Perhaps I oughta try Lollar's Tele version in a Tele.
Brint, I remember that post - I agree that he hit it on the head and makes pretty much the same point. For me, there was something about how Barney described how he felt about the instrument that really hit home, and I don't think it's just because I'm a big fan. Every once in a while, something happens - I discover something, someone points out something, whatever - that causes a paradigm shift in the way I think, and I think this may be one of those times. Lord knows how it will change how I operate, but it certainly has me thinking about how I'm doing things now. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2009 6:58 am
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The magnet material is availiable. Just have to buy huge quantities of it!
One thing that is very interesting about that pickup from 1939 is that the magnet has already lost about 1/4 of its' strength which is quite a bit. 200 year life on the cobalt magnets.
Those pickups do sound like no other pickup made, but having used them I can say that on live gigs in todays modern electronic era where there are all sorts of TV/computer monitors and radio signals, they are loud and noisy as heck!! I had to get rid of my CC pickup guitars. Could not use them without dealing with the noise.
Kessell also had an old amp that he worshipped. He said that when it was working, it was perfect for him>  |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 12 Mar 2009 8:06 am
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| I haven't heard the Brit CC pickup repros either, but have heard good things about them. The bracing issue is huge. I sold off three original CC pickups a couple years ago, having held on to them for quite awhile thinking I'd find an archtop to put one in. Truth is, no existing vintage archtop can take a CC pickup without serious modification, and who wants to do that to an otherwise nice guitar? You pretty much have to start with a tear down or build from scratch. As to the Lollar pickup, all the CC fans I know either hate it as an accurate CC repro, or think it's OK as something unto itself. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 12 Mar 2009 8:17 am
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I got to hear The Great Guitars in 1982 - Kessel, Ellis, Byrd. Barney and Herb were both playing ES-175s then. It was interesting to watch the difference in technique. Ellis tended to play in a position, with his fingers rippling. Kessel played up and down the neck a lot more. The music was fabulous.
Kessel would have covered the Gibson name while he had a Kay signature model.
I sure would like to always get the sound that I hear in my head. Even more, I'd like to get the notes I hear in my head, but lots of times my fingers don't cooperate. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 13 Mar 2009 6:08 pm
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BK was an artist.. i guess if he thought chicken knobs helped him.. okie dokie with me.. what a player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYfbPUf3NlM&feature=related
I got lost watching him but some of what he plays here is just awesome.
It looks like this was later and he gave up the chicken head knobs for a 175 |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 13 Mar 2009 8:24 pm
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| Bo, thanks for posting that. My head should stop spinning in a day or two. Wow! Barney could get funky. |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 14 Mar 2009 12:59 am
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| Yeah, that was awesome!! |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 14 Mar 2009 11:19 am
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That's from the Barney Keseel Rare Performances DVD that Stephan Grossman's Guitar Workshop sells. Amazing performance from Barney. So many '40s & '50s jazz guitarists were always talking about playing the guitar like a horn but Barney always played it like a guitar - in his hands, it's an orchestra in miniature.
Definitely worth buying the DVD and supporting producers who spend their time and money to unearth these clips and put them on digital media. I know what he means about those chicken head knobs. I can never exactly tell where I am after a volume swell with the round knobs on my Tele.
I have a Jason Lollar CC in my '37 EH-150 with secret, hidden, Aiello super-charged magnets. Here's a clip with that pickup not for my performance (I flubbed the turn-around) but just to demonstrate the tone of the pickup.
https://home.comcast.net/~aevolk/music/ONS.mp3 |
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