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Topic: The MAGIC of a NEW PEDAL STEEL ne'r before dreamed of....... |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 17 Feb 2009 9:39 pm |
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with the 60-70 or 80+/- pedal steel manufacturers around the world that today, are manufacturing very similar 8 + 4 pedal setups.......(just different colored Mica!)
What would YOUR reaction be if someone came out with a totally new, radical approach to pedal set-ups that functioned in no way like the current crop of guitars are doing?
Easier to adjust or alter the default set-up with just a minor tweak here or there with no need to
adjust rods, or cables, or pulleys or anything like that? No requirement for special tools, no work bench approach to these adjustments and it would be capable of providing the player with dozens of various string pulls or pushes, whatever.....No need to even look beneath the cabinet. No hydraulics, or electronic devices that could go wrong or require constant adjustments.
Might you accept such an innovation with open mind, open heart and open spirit, or........are you among those that WOULD NEVER encourage or explore something new.......????
I know a SECRET! I'm very interested in learning of YOUR reactions to this challenging, tho't provoking and mind boggling proposal.
Last edited by Ray Montee on 18 Feb 2009 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 2:50 am
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Here is a very simplified version of what is possible today but it would be cost prohibitive.
You use your same picks and picking technique and keep the same PSG cab, neck and strings, all of which would remain the same in order to maintain sound quality.
You would have a roll out wireless foot pedal pad placed on the floor were the pedals used to be and an attachable wireless knee lever pad for underneath the PSG.
These pads would be sensitive to every little nuance you were applying to them as if they were mechanical. They could also be set to reflect the nuances of pedal steel greats of your choice.
The only mechanical parts would be string related such as tuners which would be automatic and an adjustable nut and bridge also automatic.
Lowering and raising pitch with respect to the pedal and lever pads would all be done digitally?
Anywhere the bar is placed within 50cent of the intended note or notes would be automatically pitch corrected.
All this would be wireless to something like a lap top with the song and related information you wish for that particular tune including virtual PSG and greats of PSG nuances.
The beauty of this kind of hybrid set up would be that you could step right into it from your present mechanical PSG. |
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John P. Phillips
From:
Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 3:34 am
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Bo,
sounds fantastik but
it would seem that all you
would need to do is just
push a start button and
have the steel play itself.
(or am I missing something here in a senior moment ?)
_________________
Just remember,
You don�t stop playing cause you get older,
You get older cause you stop playing ! http://www.myspace.com/johnpphillips |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 7:54 am
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Ray, I'd be up for it.  |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 11:10 am
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| So how much would one cost$$$. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 11:25 am
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Bo said:"Anywhere the bar is placed within 50cent of the intended note or notes would be automatically pitch corrected. "
Bo, I don't think pitch correction is gonna work too well with a steel guitar. It would fight you every time you try to do a raise or lower. And sliding the bar? That would turn the slides into separate 1/2 step scales. Like sliding your finger up a string on a fretted instrument, or running your finger up a piano's keys. Separate, distinct 1/2 tones. "Blue" notes would be gone too. For instance, in the key of E, a blue note is neither the b3rd, or the major 3rd. It's in between the two. So, pitch correction would totally foul those notes up. I don't think pitch correction is in the nature of the steel guitar beast! Pitch correction on steel consists of your two ears, and that grey goo in between them! |
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Jack Dougherty
From:
Spring Hill, Florida, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 3:28 pm
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Ray...
You must be retired. 
I didn't think there were that many builders out there.
Also.....The whole beauty of the steel(IMHO) is its mechanical faults. Most of us are looking for that special sound. I for one will put up with the squeaks and groans to get it. Not interested in spending money looking for a magic bullet.
Having said this, have fun with the thread. |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 5:20 pm
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Jack I agree, I was thinking about this, could something be made to improve the PSG? Sure, why not, probably could play smoother, but take away alot and I would think you would loose alot of the "feel".
Ray you need to drop more hints. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 5:23 pm
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John, The pitch correction only applies to the strings. Since the raise and lower changes are generated digitally and overrides the string tone the pitch correction would also be overridden for that string. As I say all the little nuances would be accounted for in this hypothetical hybrid.
Iforgot to address the slide. The pitch correction would slide into the correct pitch so if you place the bar 25cents out you would automatically get 1/8 tone slide. |
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Joe Gretz
From:
Washington, DC, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 6:08 pm To answer the OPs question...
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Yes Ray, I would be interested! I love thinking about stuff like this myself, but my ideas are usually impractical at best, and totally bizarre at worst!
Just ask my tech!!!
Don't keep the secret any longer than you have to please, and don't be discouraged by the naysayers!
That said, I must admit that the elegantly simple designs we have today are an art form unto themselves that should never go away. 
Joe
_________________
Dattebayo!!! |
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Robert Harper
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 6:22 pm Why
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As a casual observer of the music industry, I see very little use of the Steel Guitar in Music, today. I believe this is proved by post on the forum. If I am correct, why would anyone invest their time energy, money and imagination to re-invent the guitar. Hey, I don't mean to offend. This is a logical question in a capitalist economy that we are supposed, eh once had. In todays world/economy we could however maybe get the money in some sorta crisis stinulus bill I suppose
_________________
"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 9:19 pm
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| Robert, that's a whole new batch of bull crap. We're talkin PSG bull crap here. |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 10:38 pm The genius of which I spoke.....................
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I've known the genius of which I spoketh for just a short while. I have complete faith in his/her technical abilities, his/her musical talents and past accomplishments; credentials, second to none.
I just received a response from this enitity who doesn't want to play the steel guitar game any more.
THUS, I'm at a loss. I feel it was a tremendous opportunity for steel guitar to grow BEYOND the current 8 x 4 pedals system, just as it did with the early Bigsby cable system. However, I respect the person's wishes. Another remarkable 'idea' that has been proven successful but will die in some dusty trash bin, never to be applied for the public benefit.
The petty remarks that are currently proffered here on the Forum in abundance, has discouraged this individual from wanting to open up and take the unnecessary barage of barbs that are frequently hurled at those that don't believe as the 'new majority' chooses to do.
So, the SECRET, is no longer a potential for anything. It's over, gone forever, capute!
At least those of us with open minds did get to share some insight into the thinking of others in this regard.
THANKS folks for participating with me. It was refreshing to get to hear some of the new ideas and/or thoughts on the subject. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 5:31 am Re: The genius of which I spoke.....................
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
I've known the genius of which I spoketh for just a short while...I just received a response from this enitity who doesn't want to play the steel guitar game any more.
So, the SECRET, is no longer a potential for anything. It's over, gone forever, capute!
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So...what was the big deal? Since it ain't gonna happen, it would seem there wouldn't be any good reason to keep it a secret? |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 8:16 am Re: The genius of which I spoke.....................
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| Loose lips sink ships! |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 8:22 am
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| Ray, I agree, if this person can't deal with the adversary of just a few petty comments, (truthfully guys just want more info), then it is best the person steps down. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 12:11 pm
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If you don’t like PSG take up something else.
Ray, with the 60-70 or 80+/- pedal steel manufacturers I think you can find a lot of genius in there.
The PSG like the standard guitar has settled into a definable entity.
You can’t make drastic changes to the fundamentals of those musical instruments and still call it a standard guitar or PSG.
You can build all the new musical instruments you want but you can’t call it a standard guitar or a Pedal Steel guitar.
I think your genius friend should go ahead and build a new musical instrument. It’s obvious he no longer wants anything to do with PSG. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 2:50 pm
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| Quote: |
...no need to
adjust rods, or cables, or pulleys or anything like that? No requirement for special tools, no work bench approach to these adjustments and it would be capable of providing the player with dozens of various string pulls or pushes, whatever.....No need to even look beneath the cabinet. No hydraulics, or electronic devices that could go wrong or require constant adjustments. |
Ray, this sounds suspiciously like the (non pedal) Al Petty "finger pulling" system that was brought up here a couple weeks ago. If that's the case, why all the "secret" stuff and "his/her" adjective drama?
For those who missed it, here's some of Al's own words...
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However, from the beginning, I excitedly realized that virtually, playing ANYTHING would now be possible, once I became proficient at this technique, utilizing variations of the "C-Diatonic-Chromatic" tuning that, as you know, I've played since "89. Slowly I was then able to pull accurately with my little finger, then, after a LOOONG TIME, I could raise strings accurately-1,2 and 3 frets, in combinations- with BOTH fingers! My goal was to be able to ADLIB fluently, which has long been my chief pleasure in making music...
The best way I can describe this method of making music is to say; it's like playing in 7 different tunings, each with about 25 pedals, and or, knee levers on them; that's like having 7 steels with about 200 pedals and knee levers total!
It far exceeds the musical potential I've had on the "D-12-24 Pedal-7 Knee lever Steels" I've had in the past. Literally, I can play ANYTHING that comes to my mind. |
Somehow...I doubt all that.  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 5:21 pm
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Thank you Donny for clearing up this mystic mystery.
If you non-pedal guys and gals want to imitate a PSG go for it.
If you PSG guys and gals want to take your pedals and knee levers off and imitate a non-pedal steel guitar imitating a PSG go for it.
BUT LEAVE ME OUT OF IT.
It doesn’t take a genius to know that a PSG is what it is and there is no demand for change. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 5:33 pm
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Is this a joke? No one is going throw their perfectly good classic pedal steel in the garbage because of some mind fart by a convicted felon, or arm chair den player, or anyone else. The classic pedal steel guitar is just that. Classic. Its not going away. Its not going to radicly change either. It is an evolvement brought about by years of consensus. Every so often you have these world class geniuses who have pipe dreams about making millions of dollars on plastic guitars or guitars that play themselves when you push a button. I would say that time has proven over and over that these people have dreams of grandeur, thinking that their "secret" is going to be the next big thing in steel guitar. The violin is a beautiful instrument and has been around in its present form for hundreds of years. Same with the oboe, the cello, and more. The secret here is that there is no secret. Only for people with too much time in their hands.
Last edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 Feb 2009 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 6:58 pm
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Vapor Steel?
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 8:09 pm
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| Quote: |
| The violin is a beautiful instrument and has been around in its present form for hundreds of years |
Excuse me Kevin!!!...but you can't compare a violin with a pedal steel guitar, pedal steel guitars Continuously changes with all the Possibilities of tunnings and pull changes as of a violin is set to what it is and you can't add different tunning and such...except of 4 strings or five or 6 strings violin, the psg has multiple Possibilities.
as i said in my previous reply...you can't stop progress and technology and improvement and i think that pedal steel guitar still has alot of improvements to go before you can go and call it perfect.
if the pedal steel guitar was perfect!!!...why is that almost everyone is always changing or adding something to their pedal steel guitar. 
Pat.
_________________
Comeau SD10 4x5, Comeau S10 3x5, Peavey Session 500,Fender Telecaster,Fender Stratocaster, Fender Precision,1978 Ovation Viper electric. Alvarez 4 strings Violin electric.
Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIYiaomZx3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2GhZTN_yXI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDTw2zNriI |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 10:03 pm
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| Don't compare COPEDANT changes with the basic design and function of the instrument. They are two different things. |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 1:06 am
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Well ok Kevin!!!...let's put it this way,
i play pedal steel and violin and i can tell you that i can play on any violin 100% like i play on mine but i can't play 100% on any pedal steel if they have a totaly different setup feel and copedant than mine...it would take me a while before i could adjust but on a violin it's instant just like a regular guitar cause you see!...pedal steel guitar is a totaly different instrument by itself, it is not universal , the violin is a few hundred years old as a pedal steel is what?...50 years or so?, so how can someone say that modern pedal steel are perfect in every way, you'd be surprise in another 50 years what a pedal steel will look like .
just my 2 cents...no offense made.
Pat.
_________________
Comeau SD10 4x5, Comeau S10 3x5, Peavey Session 500,Fender Telecaster,Fender Stratocaster, Fender Precision,1978 Ovation Viper electric. Alvarez 4 strings Violin electric.
Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIYiaomZx3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2GhZTN_yXI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDTw2zNriI |
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