Universal B6 Mode Question

Peter Docherty · From: Tennessee, USA

I have recently acquired an S-12 (Carter) tuned to a pretty common Universal setup and have been exploring the B6 'mode'. My P6 pedal lowers the 8 string from E to D. My E-Eb lower for B6 mode is on RKL. Problem is, if I 'lower the Es' the P6 will not lower to C#, which is what I would expect. D is as low as I can get the 8 string.

Before I start tinkering underneath, can anyone tell me whether this is a setup issue or an inherent limitation of the changer?

Thanks for your help.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

First, I think that you should not hesitate to ask the friendly folks at Carter Steel Guitars. Their customer service is second to none.

There is no technical limitation on your changer to lower an 8th string E to Eb to D. Carter's changer will even lower a 6th string o.o22wound down from G# to F#... not all guitars can really do that.
So, it's not your guitar's changer design.

I would suspect that, if all things are right (no binding anywhere) you would just have to move the pull rod one slot further away from the cross shaft on the bell crank or one hole closer to the changer shaft on the lower scissor.

Carter steel guitars has a rodding chart somewhere on their educational pages too.

And then try to balance your pull with the 4 string raise (if you really use it instead of releasing the E-to-Eb-lever).

... J-D.

David Doggett · Posted 19 Feb 2009 11:44 am

Pete, your RKL lowers the E 1/2 step. Pedal 6 lowers it a whole step. They are independent, not additive. Your pedal 6 will lower to the stop set at D, regardless of whether RKL is engaged or not. That's the way an all-pull system works. You cannot make it additive. If you want C# (a 1 1/2 step lower) you will have to get it some other way, for example on RKR that lowers the 2nd string D# to D and C#. You could lower the E to C#, or raise the B.

Peter Docherty · From: Tennessee, USA

Thanks for the input JD. I will certainly talk to Carter if I can. I don't see any binding, it's a very clean design underneath.

I need the 8 string to lower 2 semi-tones with P6 whether the RKL E-Eb is engaged or not. I mapped out chords for B6 mode using the Guitar Map program (with 4 and 8 strings set to Eb) and many of the chords use the P6 pedal. Then I discovered the guitar didn't work that way! Oh, and I do release the E-Eb when appropriate, rather than use the E-F raise on top of it!

Peter Docherty · From: Tennessee, USA

Thanks David, that was kinda what I suspected. I was hoping to get (for example) the 5th on string 8 for a P6+P7 major chord in E6 mode. Back to the drawing board!

I appreciate your help.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Btw. after re-reading your initial post, I think that David's answer may be appropriate to remind. The pull is tuned E-to-D... independently of your E-to-Eb lever being engaged or not.
However, the raise on sting #4 is additive.. so from an open (no E-to-Eb-lever engaged, it would bring that string up to false F (false, because it IS tuned against the E-to-Eb lower).

Here's the link to the Carter rodding chart.

http://www.steelguitarinfo.com/rodding/roddinge9b6u.html

The change basically puts your guitar back into an "open" E9th (E b7/9th).
This is where it becomes obvious how the universal steps out of the mode "this" or mode "that" thinking.

... J-D.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Pedal 6 is a standard C6th change that lowers the middle E string to Eb and raises the high E to F. This forms an F9th chord.

On a U-12, the change assumes that the middle E string is already lowered to D# (B6th), and lowers it half a step further to D. This forms an E9th chord.

If you need to lower the string to C#, you should not do it on Pedal 6 as you would lose many of the standard C6th changes.
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Peter Docherty · From: Tennessee, USA

Thanks for the input JD.

I also subscribe to the principle of avoiding the 'mode' mentality. However in my exploration to date I find that practical playing of B6 chords requires my LKR to be folded with the left foot operating to the right. Playing p1-p7 with RKL,RKV,RKL requires either a contortionist or years of practice, maybe both Very Happy

Peter Docherty · From: Tennessee, USA

Thanks Bob, and kudos to the site for instant answers to all manner of questions Very Happy

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Just as an academic observation re: 8th string E>C# lower---my Carter isn't set up right now but I'm not sure if I can physically do the three semi-tone drop there (at that particular string gauge). I'm pretty sure I can't do it on my Fess where the E>D lower is a long enough pull as it is. The Carter changer has different leverage and greater pull capability but that would be a pretty long pull.
The other folks have covered the issue of whether you would want to do that from a musical standpoint. This is strictly a mechanical observation.

Danny Naccarato · From: Burleson, Texas

As b0b said, it's a standard change. On mine, I've eliminated that pedal, as I lower the E to D on a knee lever, and simply release the "lowered E's" at the same time. That in effect raises the 4th string Eb back to E.....

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