SET Lists.........................

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

If one is playing "a SHOW", on stage......... and the folks in the audience came to hear your original materials......I'd agree that a SET LIST is appropriate. Same is true for a radio/television show.

HOWEVER, if one is playing a COUNTRY DANCE HALL type program, and YOU are NOT a famous recording artist, how in the world do FIXED SET LISTS work?
Dance bands used to play sets of three songs, and if the floor was full of happy patrons, they'd play yet another. The reverse was true, if everyone went and sat down, songs of a different tempo were performed.
The mood of the crowd changes from week to week, and from hour to hour.

The crowd is active, thinking, possibly drinking, wanting to HEAR or DANCE to their favorite tune, etc....... If they're dancing a waltz and floor is full of dancing/patrons,how can anyone that calls themselves a musician, simply up and change the dance tempo to some loud and obnoxious, racey ROCK & ROLL tune?

OR, if they're really jiving to that Rock and roll tune, how can one upset the atmosphere and merely play something on a fixed set list or one of their own personal favorites .........that has a totally different beat or tempo, say like "Tennessee Waltz"?

Has playing to and appealing to the audience an old
out of date habit? Is there no longer any merit to the public relations aspect of playing music? Since when did the musicians personal whims supercede that of the paying public?

If you're George Straight, you can do what you want.
If you're not, I'd lean toward wanting to please the public first, last and always.

I wonder if THAT's WHY country bands have died along the way since the crowds chose not to return to that rude and insulting saloon? Bands no longer looking like "professional musicians" and who ignore their audience...and refuse to play 'their choice of music" surely can't expect to hold them for long, can they?

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

We have a setlist as our default but we remain flexible. If everybody has just finally gotten up on the dancefloor for some fast dancing, we'll skip the next ballad on the list and go for the next uptempo thing to keep the mood going. The setlist is the default if there's no particular reason to change it.

We also have to keep in mind that there are lots of folks in our audience who don't do any fast-dancing, but they all get up to slow-dance whenever the chance arises, so we have to be sure to pace the setlist with them in mind too.
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jim flynn · From: Salado,Texas

Ray, I've been out of the Dancehall business for a couple of years but here is what I know about gigs down here.
Little clubs(bars) are practically gone,Used to be good country music on weekends. the wwII crowd really enjoyed it.Now the bigger clubs cater to the twenties somethings and it sounds like rock, redneck blues and NEW country which is awful. But that's where the money is.(not for the bands tho.
This area has a few Slovanic lodges that cater to the Czec,and Germanic rural crowd, and do the love old country. Usually set list are used by the 8-10 bands rotating thru the lodges. These are flexable so that the leader can call or change the color to match the mood.
I currently play two senior dances a month. The usually number is between 75-100. They dance every tune. Fast two step shuffles, some polkas, line dances,
really the works. It's a fun gig for the band, and they love it.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

The set list is a guide, generally built on experience for the room (s) . But always remain flexible. If people are attending and dancing, you have a good set list, if they are not, well it's time for a new set list. If a band a has a good set list they will be invited to return and get gigs fairly often.

I do agree though , that the depth of what a band can offer that is not on the set list is the home run.

Happy Saturday, I'm on Telecaster only tonight, I can't wait, guitar/gig bag and a Peavey Classic 30, 1 trip from the car to the stage , 1 trip back to the car at the end. It's a good life !

tp

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

There are advantages to a set list. The lady in our band plays both rhythm guitar and keyboard. I use several different guitars and the PSG. Having a set list avoids the time and disruption of instrument changes, like putting several songs using my 6/12 doubleneck (heavy) together.

A good compromise is "modules" of 3 to 5 songs played as a group, somewhat like the old concepts of a "dance set," (three foxtrots, or three waltzes, etc.)

It is not always a good idea to keep people on the dancefloor. They drink more when they are sitting down.

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Set lists are a good reference. A good frontman will read the crowd. What I find more important is the ability to come up with a quick answer to a request like:

1. Do you know song name by artist?
2. Can you play a waltz?
3. Do you know anything by artist?

When your song list is 100+ songs, its hard to remember. Having lists of material with different sorts is a huge help. Just for kicks, take a look at:

http://www.HatCreekCountry.com/setlist.htm

Bo Legg · Posted 14 Feb 2009 5:42 pm

Ray Montee

Luke Morell · From: Ramsey Illinois, USA Hometown of Tex Williams

Our band uses a set list, but if someone has a reguest, we'll do it, if we know it.

John Lemieux · From: Ontario, Canada

Jeff your music is LISTENING music not dancing music, your band would likely put a reved up dance floor to sleep by 11.00pm
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music is the spice of life

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

John,

You're comment is ignorant, and has degraded many PSG players that played that material. For examle, there's many Waylon songs with some of Mooneys best cuts... just to name a few. Look it over again, especially the list by artist. Show you're a man and come on back with a comment. Appologies are OK too.

I put some thought into my reply... especially after taking a look at some of your previous replies on this forum.

Mike Schwartzman · From: Maryland, USA

I enjoy using set lists... especially at rehearsals...keeps everyone working at a smoother pace. At gigtime it's more of a general thing that can change with a given crowd preference or if a bandmember gets a good "read" on the crowd during the course of an evening.

PS... I enjoyed Bo's comments on high drink prices and DUI's. Don't forget DJ's and Karaoke (spelling??) too.
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Bo Legg · Posted 15 Feb 2009 4:32 pm

Jeff, I've never heard you play but I see nothing wrong with your set lists. People have been dancing to that for years.
I don't mean to speak for John but he may be just pointing out that you could play your set lists choices at some venues but at others it wouldn't fly.
I play at times with a group that starts the show by saying "If you don't like Merle Haggard you can kiss our Glasses"

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Bo,

Your diplomatic reply is much appreciated.

I, as most replies I've seen on this thread, tend to lean toward using a set list as a starting point. Reading the crowd, and hearing requests are the primary decision makers for what to play next. It is for this reason I created a breakdown of all material, with many sort fields. If the customers want to kick-butt... I assure you we can drive all night long.

http://www.hatcreekcountry.com/images/artist.pdf

John, and only John, will need to clearify his comment. My interpretation of his reply to me is very clear. It was so distasteful that I checked into his history of posts here. I cut and paste a few to help identify where my reply is justified IMHO. He owes me nothing, but I want to give him an opportunity to give me an honest reply (or not). I believe I've proven where I stand on this. Balls in his court.

John Lemieux · From: Ontario, Canada

A fact is a fact
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music is the spice of life

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Our band practices our show and dance sets well before the performance dates.

Much of the reason for the practice is to assure that everyone is on the same latitude when we go through the numbers on stage. None of use want to sound like a bunch of rag tag, garage jam musicians.

If there is a problem with our lead ins, bridges or wraps, we do not want it showing up when we are in front of 150 - 250 people. If we present amateurish crap when playing live, it could come back to haunt us when trying to bag another gig.

We also do requests from the audience; however, we try our best to stick to the requested scores that we have practiced previously.

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Go with the flow. Jeff looks like we have different song lists. With your band and my band we could cover it all Smile

Joe
http://www.willowcreekband.com/songlist.html

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I'm not a regular in any band. I sub now and then when called upon. The various band's tune lists are indispensible. And the two things that have really killed live music more than anything else are television and the automobile. When I was young I could still see the last vestiges of the non automobile culture (before WWII). Small neighborhood businesses were everywhere mixed into residential neighborhoods. That included small taverns with small dancefloors and a small stage. There was also in the town I grew up a, "Strip." Once you got downtown there was a whole row of dancehalls. After WWII when everybody could afford a car the small neighborhood places closed down because everybody could drive 5 or six or even more miles to one of the bigger and better appointed places. Shortly after that it became even easier to just stay home and watch the tube. And as more places went bust, the drives became longer. Making an evening in front of the tube that much easier again. I think it's a sad state of affairs, myself. But I don't think we can blame the musicians per se. It's a cultural thing.
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Amor vincit omnia

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

joe long · From: San Antonio, Texas

Back in the mid-70's, living in Dallas, I was a member of a band which performed mostly at dance halls in North Texas. We had 3 set lists of which the 1st set was made up of our strongest material. The band leader was the band to end the night with some of the stronger numbers in the 1st set. From time to time new material was added to each set. He wanted to band to end the night on a strong note.

The set list worked fine for us and since there was very little time delay between songs there were few request. To me, it was comforting to know what song was coming up next and be ready for the intro.

For several years the band leader would not allow girlfriends or wives to attend the dances. We also wore dark blue spanish cut western suits which the leader had purchased at a fire sale after a well known western store in Ft. Worth burned. I can still smell those suits even today.

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

We typically start each set with the same three songs for that set then Billy will call songs from there as he sees it. All he has to do is call the song and count it off. All of our material is arranged so it happens pretty quick. We all know the key,tempo,and who kicks it off. There is no lighting of cigaretts or thumbing through song books between songs.

John Lemieux · From: Ontario, Canada

Ihad not posted an apology,simply standing by what i said
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music is the spice of life

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I completely agree with Jeff H.'s first reply. If you know hundreds of tunes, it can be very useful to have them written down as a reference. I also agree that common sense should dictate the use of any set list.

Another critical point is that it's important to keep things moving - dead air can be deadly if you're trying to keep an audience engaged. Having things written down in front of everybody can help do just that. If you don't need it - OK, don't do it.

Frankly, the comment about listening vs. dancing music is not even relevant to this discussion. Of course, lots of people dance to the music on Jeff's lists, but even if they didn't - so what? What does it have to do with set lists? Do "listening audiences" somehow not matter?

Joe Miraglia · From: Jamestown N.Y.

Jeff,

Joe

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Dave,

You nailed it on the head. The main point I made on my original post was 1. 2. 3. above. The actual set lists (on the link) are changed every night. The reality is, I find myself looking at the dance floor, then grab the tempo list (assuming my memory needs an ajustment). Knowledge is power. I figure the more info I can have available to me, the better call I can make. Actually, I say something to the front man, as its his call, not mine.

The more I think about the listening issue, it reminds me of some of the the concerts, festivals and fairs I've played over the years. The folks come to listen, not dance. In that form... it's a complement.

The fact issue? I found it as a good way to end the pi$$ing match.

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