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Topic: VOLUME/Tone control foot pedals....................... |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 11 Feb 2009 6:53 pm |
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When the BIGSBY volume/tone foot pedal arrived on the scene, for many, it was a very popular "got to have it" commodity. Other manufacturers made similar pedals............
SLOWLY, this pedal has slipped back into the shadows, while guitar clip on knobs ultimately became the rage, allowing the player to make these
desired changes right at the guitar instead of way back behind he/she on the amp itself.
WHY DO YOU FEEL this valuable musician's tool lost its momentum? |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2009 7:27 pm
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Maybe because it's yet more to learn and then master, and as time goes on fewer wish to exert the effort to make it really work for them.
Plus it was used when truly serious music mattered, whereas music these day's has dumbed so far down to where it is all about the booty and the $, not quality for the brain. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 4:55 am Re: VOLUME/Tone control foot pedals.......................
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
When the BIGSBY volume/tone foot pedal arrived on the scene, for many, it was a very popular "got to have it" commodity.
WHY DO YOU FEEL this valuable musician's tool lost its momentum? |
I think because it was used mostly as a "gimmick", and not for playing serious music. The "doo-wah" stuff, the bar bouncing up and down the neck, the "wot-wot" sound effects, and those long Loony Toons glisses were more schlockey kiddie stuff than they were valuable techniques for playing real music. |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 10:31 pm
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Donny, Can you bounce the bar from one octave to another? (IN TUNE, AND IN TIME).
Its a lost art, granted its not for everyone, but its valid.
Its an effect, like harmonics or hammer ons etc.
I don't think its fair to relegate it to some kind of non serious status.
Some of the proponents of this effect, Speedy West, Buddy Emmons, Vance Terry, as you know played serious music.
They used it to build tension, and for humor.
Humor, unfortunately is sadly lacking in today's music.
Lee |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 10:46 pm WISE words.................
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LEE: Nicely stated.
I've always tho't of myself as a 'serious'
wanna-be player and I used to be able to do that
affect when desired. |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 11:49 pm
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And let's not forget that back in the day, some of the most serious players considered E9 as a "gimmick".
I've always viewed the boo-wah tone control effect as a steel players imitation of a brass section, not a gimmick lick. |
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Robby Springfield
From:
Viola, AR, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2009 5:03 am
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I had one of those Fender pedals that had the slide tone control. The problem was everytime I would get to noticing a change in tone, it wasn't intentional. The crazy thing would be to one side or the other. It didn't take long for me to figure out it was not the pedal for me.
_________________
Robby
www.power3productions.com |
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 13 Feb 2009 6:40 am
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Exactly Jussi,
I hear imitations of trumpets and other brass instruments, it can be a very serious effect if used in correct time and sparingly.
Ray I would think with the popularity of E9, and at the same time swing /jazz players( C6 ect.) losing steel work. The tone control pedals slipped into the cracks with these players.
Todd[/quote] |
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rodger_mcbride
From:
Minnesota
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Posted 13 Feb 2009 7:15 am tone/volume
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Hi Ray,
Perhaps you could share some of your expertise with setting up your pedal with your Bassman. I have a similar setup with a new Fender pedal. How do you set your tone controls on your guitar and amp to get the maximum effect?
I've tried the pedal with with my modern setup Carter U12 and Nv112 and find there is virtually no tone change when used with the "ideal" tone setting on the amp. Perhaps the tone qualities modern guitarists seem to like are fundamentally incompatible with the pedal's "ideal" tone setting. I'm wondering if changing the pots in the pedal would help or if someone like Keith Hilton would have to redesign the electronics to bring the pedals into line with modern guitar/amp combinations.
As far as the seriousness of the music goes, it's no more a cliche than speed picking. Different times call for different cliches.
rodger |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Feb 2009 7:45 am
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| Lee Jeffriess wrote: |
Donny, Can you bounce the bar from one octave to another? (IN TUNE, AND IN TIME).
Its a lost art, granted its not for everyone, but its valid...they used it to build tension, and for humor.
Humor, unfortunately is sadly lacking in today's music.
Lee |
I could 40 years ago, but back then it was still in people's minds. Nowadays, it sounds old and hackneyed, more hokey than it did back then (to me, anyway). Back then, some songs we played like "Tattooed Lady", "Squaws Along The Yukon", and "Little Red Hen" were funny ones, and they gave us a chance to do funny stuff and sound effects, and the people got a good laugh out of it. Like you said - for humor. But I didn't care for that stuff, even back then. Speedy West, as you mentioned, was a master at it.
Allow me to digress...
Back almost 50 years ago, when I first got the album "Two Guitars Country Style" featuring Speedy and Jimmy Bryant, I remember how I noticed that whenever Jimmy got into the really fast picking that Speedy reverted to the old cliched bar-bouncing and those long staccato glisses. He just couldn't keep up with Jimmy's fast single-note style, and it made me think that Jimmy was bringing the new country (guitar) sound, and Speedy was giving us the last vestiges of the old country (steel) sounds. (I always wondered what that album would have sounded like with a steeler who was a true match for Bryant's talents.)
I mean no disrespect, and if you like that stuff (the doo-wah, doo-wahs, and bar bouncing up the neck) that's fine. More power to you. But I must admit that I don't hear that stuff much anymore, and I really don't miss it. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2009 8:23 am
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I've seen both Jussi and Lee play in their respective "Retro" bands (Hal Peters, and Big Sandy), here in Portland, Oregon, and must say that that "Schtick" is an essential Steel Guitar element that would otherwise cause the entire theme to lack authenticity were it dissmissed.
I think the Vol/Tone pedal has never really caught on because they never worked correctly for very long (as reported by many players on this forum over the years). Either the wrong pot was used causing the taper or tone to be way off. The string/spring mechanism often slipped, causing to the tone to be stuck in a non-desireble position... or, It just plain didn't work, etc...
Here's two that you could get here in Portland today if one wanted:
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/msg/1030264682.html
Also, Guitar Centuar on Sandy Blvd has the new Fender Vol/tone reissue pedals in stock.
I would reccomend all steelers try one of these pedals at some point. And arm yourself with some Speedy licks, too!
They can be really fun!! |
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Bill McRoberts
From:
Janesville, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 10:07 am
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| Lee Jeffriess wrote: |
Donny, Can you bounce the bar from one octave to another? (IN TUNE, AND IN TIME).
Its a lost art, granted its not for everyone, but its valid.
Its an effect, like harmonics or hammer ons etc.
I don't think its fair to relegate it to some kind of non serious status.
Some of the proponents of this effect, Speedy West, Buddy Emmons, Vance Terry, as you know played serious music.
They used it to build tension, and for humor.
Humor, unfortunately is sadly lacking in today's music.
Lee |
A recent example of this is on the "Willie & the Wheel just released this month. Eddie Rivers is ONE of the best non-pedal steel players (and there are quite a few even in this thread) uses this effect religously, tastefully and with skill.
The pedal has it's place even in todays world and is still used in retro, rockabilly and western swing bands |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 4:34 pm
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| I always thought that stuff was cool to hear in a song. Explain the bar hopping thing and being in tune please. I had John Bechtel make me up a button box that will give me a kind of BooWah effect. Since I don't have a tone knob on my Carter he came up with this thing that does a pretty good job. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 18 Feb 2009 8:35 pm
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I remember having a Rocco tone Expressor, no strings, gear opereated in the late 30's and early 40's. It worked great, it had two lips to hold the shoe in so it wouldn't slip. My friend Jody Carver has had one for many years. Back then it made the steel sound exciting to the Public. Every where I played, everyone was intrigued by it and loved it, when I did certain songs. I did bar hop all the way up the fretboard, in pretty good tune all the way and land on the final fret in good tune.It took some practice to get it . I never used a red button.Back then I never heard of Speedy West, until the 50's. As Don says, it might have been a good Gimmick, but it sold well to the public. I sold that pedal and in the 50's Bought a Bigsby tone and Volume Pedal from the former Presidient of Gibson in Kalamazoo, who bought the mfg.It was great and I had it for years. but my foot slipped on it at times,When I used the tone for Boowaw , or bar crash and sound like a brass section.
I used to use it for the Brass sound, made my steel sound like a big band. These are my memories of the late 30's early 40's., etc.I played standup D8 steel for years that way, untill I got my first Pedal job.Good post Ray. On your topic. As some have mentioned , it just got out of style with the new E9th country sound coming in vogue  ...al. .
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 4:15 pm
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| The Fender vol/tone pedal is an integral part of my sound. I have definite retro influences, but name a steel player who doesn't. Mine just go back a little further than E9th cliches (although I employ those, too). Just a matter of taste in the end, but people seem to really enjoy the effect. You don't see much steel guitar played live these days anyway, and the vol/tone effect is even rarer, giving my playing a cool factor that helps offset a deficit of skill. |
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Doug Palmer
From:
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 7:13 pm
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Any body remember Alvino Ray? Wow what a sound.
_________________
Emmons D-10, ST-10,LD-10 III, NV-112,Fender Deluxe Reverb. Authorized wholesale dealer musicorp.com! |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 8:19 pm
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Doug-Sure do. I was right there watching him make all those sounds, and trying to steal every lick I could from him. He was very advanced for those days....al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 7:20 am
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| I think it's spelled "Rey". Great sound indeed! There's some very cool stuff on YouTube. From the videos you can see he uses the tone control on his guitar to make it talk, cry, laugh, etc, plus he was the first I know of to use the talk-box. What a master - even without the gimmicks! I don't believe he used the vol/tone foot pedal though. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 8:30 am
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Tim-I never saw him use a Tone/volume pedal. He used the volume and tone knmobs that were on Gibson guitars and Fenders later, in those days, right handy to the little finger by the pickup. I wish they had those on these Newer guitars, don't know whey they dropped them.Maybe just to save money....al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Anthony Locke
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 8:36 am
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| This is good timing for this thread,in a couple of hours, I'm going to pick up the Fender Vol/Tone pedal i've had on order. I really like the "boo-wah" stuff if done tastefully. |
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Anthony Locke
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 8:36 am
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| This is good timing for this thread,in a couple of hours, I'm going to pick up the Fender Vol/Tone pedal i've had on order. I really like the "boo-wah" stuff if done tastefully. |
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