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Topic: 59-60 Vibrasonic |
Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:00 pm |
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Does anyone know the power output of a '59-'60 Vibrasonic.
The brown one with the D130-F in it.
I might have just scored one (on Australian E-bay of all places)
The Fender Amp Field Guide doesn't say.
I don't think its the pinkish-brown one shown on the FAFG, but its more a straight brown (see pic)
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:39 pm
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Jeremy,
that amp is worth its weight in gold, well almost. Absolute gem, and among the finest Fender designs ever. The trem is gorgeous sounding, better than the opto style of the blackface and silverface era. I believe that's about a 45 watt amp. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they use 2 6L6 power tubes. Great amp. I missed an opportunity to buy one a few years back, and have been kicking myself ever since. That should be considered among the greatest steel guitar amps ever.
Brad |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:50 pm
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thanks, Brad
I am negotiating with the guy now.
I am very excited - especially in view of your advice
I was looking for a silverface twin, or a 100W vibrosonic, but it sounds like I should settle for this .......  |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 6:23 pm
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I GOT IT - Yippee!!
and it didn't cost a bomb either
now I've just got to get it from one side of Australia (Sydney) to the other (Perth) |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 6:40 pm
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Just make sure you get pics of the chassis, and someone who knows the guts, to verify its originality. A lot of guys are stripping these out now and replacing the parts with cheaper ones, since the guts are worth a ton on their own. I'm saying this because a guy here in Canada has been trying to sell a '61 Super for $1,650, but it doesn't have the original transformers. I believe this is where some of the true magic of these amps reside.
.....ah.....I just read your latest post. I'm a little late.
Let us know how it is when you get it! |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 7:04 pm
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Thanks for the advice Chris - I appreciate you all looking out for me and offerring all this advice.
The guy who owns it (Chris Paul Robinson) has had it for years, and now lives and works in the States (which is partly why he is selling it)
here is a link to his myspace page
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=95805832
his brother in Sydney who is managing the sale (and, yes I have spoken to both of them!) sounded real nice on the phone. I suppose, as usual one has to take things on trust a bit, but I have a good feeling about this.
Wish me luck fellas
Anyone in Australia want to buy a Steel King? or a Blues Deluxe, or a 400W Laney BAss head (I've got to sell something!) |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 7:07 pm
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| I'm sure it's all fine.....if you get a good feeling about the seller, then I bet all's well under the hood. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 7:22 pm
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| GREAT score Jeremy! |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 8:16 am
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| Ridiculously cool, and rare, amp! I'm jealous! |
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 4:56 pm
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Try this for more info: http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/vibrasonic_brown.html
Power output is not specified, but it lists original equipment as 4x6L6s (as 2x6L6 and 2x5881), so it's probably pushing or exceeding 100w.
Cool score!
_________________
"...An admission of interest in protracted commentary is certainly no reason to capitalize on surmised aberations that do not exist." - BH |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 6:17 pm
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the (previous) owner confirmed that it runs only 2 x 6L6s.
If he was mistaken then all the better, but for now I am expecting 45 watts which is not much more than my blues deluxe reissue. (I am sure they are much more toneful watts, though)
I read somewhere that the 59 Vibrasonic was introduced firstly (or at least designed) as a replacement for the 55-57 Twin - which ran 2x6L6s - as Fender's premium amp, so I wouldn't be suprised if that was the Vibrasonic's configuration too. The Twin was subsequently reincarnated as the Narrow Panel "Big Box" twin (with 4 x 6L6s) and resumed its mantle as Fender's big gun premium amp. Or something like that.
we'll see when it arrives from Sydney. I will post some more detailed pics then.
thanks again for all your advice and positive input. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 8:40 pm
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from:
http://www.musicianshotline.com/archive/monthly/qa_soldano/2002/07_02.htm
Anyway, I have to agree with you, the Fender Vibrasonic Reverb was a pretty cool amp. And yes, it was basically a Twin equipped with a JBL D-130-F 15" speaker. That amp was so perfectly suited for surf guitar it's scary. It was, in my opinion, one of the better amps Fender ever built. I think if they brought it back as a reissue, they could probably sell a few of them. You'd buy one, right?!? But, in terms of demand, I doubt they'd be a runaway seller. Even in their heyday, the number of Vibrasonics sold never came close to that of the Twin Reverb.
As for 15" speaker equipped amps in general, you're right, there just aren't many out there. I know that a lot of steel guitar players prefer 15" speakers, and I've seen a few amps designed specifically for those instruments that do sport a single 15". I think most guitar amp makers, including myself, tend to offer what players are most likely to ask for - which is 12" speakers. Part of this is due to the fact that modern guitar amps are capable of producing a much greater range of sounds than amps of the past, including much more overdriven and distorted tones. Twelve inch speakers seem to adapt more readily to this wider range of tones than the fifteen inchers do. From my experience, the 15" speaker gets a bit "flubby" and undefined when subjected to heavily overdriven tones. Another thing to consider is the availability of these speakers. While there are hundreds of models of 12" speakers specifically designed for guitarists to choose from, there are very few choices in the 15" size. And bass speakers really don't cut it. In fact, I've never heard a better 15" guitar speaker than that JBL that came in the Vibrasonic. Sadly, those speakers are no longer manufactured.
So, I don't think you've "missed" anything, Vince. As cool as they are for certain things, single 15" guitar amps just aren't very popular these days - and in reality, never were. But I can understand why you could like one, so I suggest that you go out and find a nice used or reconed JBL D-130, call Mojo Musical Supply (1-800-927-6656) for a repop Vibrasonic cabinet, and transform your Twin into a Vibrasonic. You'll be glad you did! |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 10:25 pm
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With a JBL D130, that's gonna be a VERY loud 45 watts.
Brad |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 25 Jan 2009 7:25 am
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My friend in Sydney has kindly picked up the amp and it is waiting in his garage to be shipped over here.
From the photos, and the Fender Amp Field Guide, its pretty clear it is a 1961 model. It has brown tolex (61-63. The 59-61 ones were pinkish-brown) and brown grille cloth (59-61)
It is the 6G13-A circuit, not the earlier 5G13, as it's front panel controls go VOL, TREB, BASS on the 'Normal' channel. The earlier ones go BASS, TREB, VOL.
It came with a step-up transformer 110/240V.
Updates as they unfurl ... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Jan 2009 7:56 pm
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| The original Vibrasonic was made from 1959-1962. One 15" speaker, and 25 watts power. Worth a pretty penny (probably over $1500). It was followed up about 30 years later by the Vibrosonic Custom steel amp, one 15" speaker, and 100 watts, but that one's only worth about $600. There was also a Vibrosonic Reverb amp made in the '70s, worth slightly more than the Vibrosonic Custom, with pretty much the same specs. |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Posted 26 Jan 2009 9:41 pm
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I don't mind saying I paid AUS$2500 for this '61 model, which is about US$1750.
If you take off the US$500 freight premium for anything of this weight imported from the US, then it is like I bought it in the states for $1250.
Thats my story (what I'm tellin' the missus) and I'm stickin' to it.
I reckon all amps and steels in Australia are worth at least US$500 more than in the states because of the freight premium. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Jan 2009 10:46 pm
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That is a great score. This amps are stupidly underpriced, for what they are. IMHO.
BTW - Model 5G13 has 2 x 6L6. Model 6G13A has 2 x 5881. Solid-state rectifier either way. With plate voltage around 450 VDC, I'd guess these are putting out around 45-50 watts, not 100. The circuit diagram of the 6G13-A is virtually indistinguishable from the 6G5A brown tolex Pro. I assume the only real difference is the speaker.
It's a wicked pissah. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 6:07 am
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Sure is sweet. I wish I had it.
I have it on my list of scratch builds for the future.
But an original IS better.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 8:21 am
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| I think the Vibrasonic had a bigger, better, output transformer than the Pro. It was briefly, during 1959, the top of the line Fender amp, and most expensive, before the newly designed Twin and Showman came out. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 8:34 am
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| I would LOVE to plug my Tele into one of those amps! It should have the same "trem" circuit as my 62 Super. You're gonna love that! A great sound can be had by not turning the trem off with the footswitch, but by turning the speed knob all the way down, and experimenting with the depth knob. The most luscious sort of chorusing sound! |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 9:01 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| It should have the same "trem" circuit as my 62 Super. You're gonna love that! The most luscious sort of chorusing sound! |
Exactly!!! These Fenders used the bias tremolo method instead of the opto method. It actually modulates the bias voltage to the power tubes. The bias method has a much more phasey, swirly, almost vibrato-y character to it. It's quite a sound. This is one aspect of my '68 Princeton Reverb that I love so much. The larger Fenders after '64 or so used the photo-resistor (opto) trem circuit. These Brown Fenders are true gems.
Brad |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 9:06 am
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| EGGS ACKLEY! I hate roaches! |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 9:11 am
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| The Vibrasonic uses a different trem than the Princeton. It's not modulating the bias on the output tubes, it is more involved than that. Audio signal is split into high and low frequencies, and the highs and lows are sent to their own gain stages, and modulated by oscillator voltages that are of opposite phase. So when the highs get louder, the lows get quieter. Then the highs and lows are mixed back together. That's why these amps had so many tubes, the vibrato used 2 1/2 12ax7's...Jerry |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 9:22 am
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Amazing design,
that's why it's on the list of builds.
I don't care HOW many tubes I need,
if it sounds awesome.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 27 Jan 2009 3:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| I think the Vibrasonic had a bigger, better, output transformer than the Pro. |
Yeah, that makes sense. Power transformers were the same, but I couldn't read one of the output transformers on the schematics I had.
I didn't do a complete diff on the circuit diagrams, but a bunch of spot checks were absolutely identical, right down to the nominal voltages.
Definitely not bias modulation tremelo. People often call it "harmonic vibrato", and it's a separate oscillator circuit that mixes with the vibrato channel after the tone stack but before the phase inverter. This circuit is shared with the brown Pro, Bandmaster, Super, and perhaps others. This contrasts to the bias modulation of the early white-tolex Tremolux and brown Vibroverb. I guess it's a matter of taste, but the two finest sounding tremelos I ever heard were my '61 Tremolux and a friend's brown Vibroverb. But this harmonic vibrato is great.
I need to clone one of these and a brown Vibroverb - one of these days when I have lots of time (yeah, right). |
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