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Topic: Lowering E's Right To Left-RKL ??????? |
Mike Randolph
From:
Cook Minnesota, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 5:12 pm |
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Hello,
After watching the For Sale section for quite sometime I finally found a Willy I had to have.Wow what a guitar!!!They are truly a Superb guitar!! To my surprise when I went to change my knee's,I couldn't!!! I lower my E's with my right to left-RKL.The left to rightLKR shaft didn't go all the way to the edge to allow to raise my 1st and 2nd string.Never thought to ask about the underside.It all turned out good,my friend bought the Willy. So how many lower there E's right to left-RKL?????????
Thanks,Mike
Last edited by Mike Randolph on 21 Jan 2009 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Baringer
From:
Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 5:23 pm
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| Since I started playin' pedals...many moon (ha) |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 5:24 pm
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Mike, may I suggest clarifying your post by using the terminology that's become conventional:
LKL= left knee moving to the left
LKR= left knee moving to the right
RKL= right knee moving to the left
RKR= right knee moving to the right |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 5:37 pm
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I do,But I can play a guitar that has on the LKR. 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Skip Ellis
From:
Bradenton, Fl USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 6:20 pm
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I learned on a PP set up that way and I have to think real hard to play a regular Emmons setup.
_________________
2013 Brook Torridge, 2014 Martin 000-18, two homebrew Teles, Evans RE200 amp, Quilter 101R head, understanding wife of 45 years. 'Steeless' at the moment but looking...... |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 6:23 pm E Lower RKL
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| Started that way studying Jeff Newman, just never occurred to me to change. Doesn't Mr. Franklin, seems I saw a copedant showing he did. Either way probably has some limitations, I may find them if I ever get to that level. Rotsaruck! |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2009 8:19 pm
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| My Bud is RKL and my Emmons LKR. It takes me about two songs to get it in my head right. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 6:42 am
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I lower my E's on the RKL as well, and I find it indispensible for a few particular changes, including sweeping between the LKL and RKL, bringing the F all the way down to an Eb in one full, uninterrupted sweep. I've challenged a few players to make this sweep sound even on the same knee, and in my opinion it can't be done. There's always that little pause which reveals the E note, making the minor chord jump out. This causes the change be dissonant. I'll try to explain, in case I'm not being clear:
Go to the third fret and engage the A-F pedal/lever combo. Hit 3,4,5. Come off the F lever, and engage the E lower. You can get a change similar to rocking on and off the A pedal in an AB pedal position, but on the one knee it's hard to execute. On separate knees, it's really nice. I use this change on practically every song when gigging. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 7:15 am
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| Perfectly stated Chris! |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 7:22 am
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i"m w: you too Chris
also, using E to Eb on RKL along w: Eb to D on string 2 w: LKR is pretty hip for some dissonant licks |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 8:06 am
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I lower my E's on my RKL too. On my push pull, the F lever,LKL, moves to the right when I lower my E's. Bumps into my left knee. That would be a good reason to lower E's on LKR, if you play a push pull. You can put the two left knee levers closer together, and your leg is moving to the right as the F lever moves to the right. Sounds confusing, even to me, but if you play a push pull you know what I'm talking about...Jerry
Last edited by J Fletcher on 22 Jan 2009 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 9:28 am
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Lowering the "E's" with RKL is not only the "code of the west", but is also the "law" for original Sho-Bud owners. 
_________________
"FROM THEN TIL' NOW"
Last edited by Gene Jones on 22 Jan 2009 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 9:33 am
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| rkl |
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Zeke Cory
From:
Hinsdale, New York USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 10:15 am Gene Is Right
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| Every Shobud I have owned has been set up that way, lowering your E's to Eb on the Right Knee moving Left. All my owners manuals show the same, and indicate that must be a Shobud standard setup. Can't speak for other kinds of guitars though. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 11:51 am
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| RKL for lowering E's on mine. |
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Nick Reed
From:
Russellville, KY USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 12:06 pm
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I have the standard Emmons set-up lowering my E's LKR, and raising them LKL. Same set-up on all my pedal steels. It's both the CODE & LAW at my house to do it that way 
Mike Randolph, I think your Williams could have probably been changed over if you'd had my tech here in Nashville workin on it. |
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Mike Randolph
From:
Cook Minnesota, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 2:50 pm
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Hi guys,there is no problem except the fact that I never new that there were guitars out there that you couldn't change, that's all.I was able to lower my E's but the changes on my LKR were impossible.The left knee shaft stopped just shy of the third pedal hook up.
I played SHO-BUD's all my life until three years ago.I now play a ZUM,which came set up to my specs.
Chris you are so right the F to Eb change.It is a very smooth effect for this set up.
I was just curious.Thanks for posting!!
Mike |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 4:58 pm
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I think I understand what Mike is talking about. On my Williams, I have the first string raise to G#, second string to E, and (for me) string 7 raise to G# on a second staggered LKL. As with Mike's guitar, the cross shaft that the knee lever is attached to does not span the whole width of the E9th undercarriage with mine ending about 2 inches from the front apron of the guitar. On his, it probably extends enough to get a bell crank in position for strings 4 & 8, but not above the fourth string. The cross shaft on my guitar for the lever Mike wants to move to the left knee (Strings 1 & 2)serves only to mount the knee lever and a bell crank that a rod hooks to and connects to another bellcrank on a cross shaft closer to the changer that does extend all the way across the undercarriage space allowing bellcranks for strings 1 & 2. This cross shaft is the second shaft from the changer on my guitar. This is what Mike would need to do to add those changes to the lever on his left knee. Or do some creative bending and angling of the rods.
I do favor guitars that all the cross shafts span the whole width of the undercarriage to make changing setups easier. |
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Mike Randolph
From:
Cook Minnesota, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:43 pm
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Richard,you are right on the money.As it turned out I got an Emmons.Willy's are great guitars.
Thanks,Mike |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:43 pm Lowering E;s Right to LKR
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| I started out my steel journey in 1968 with an Emmons that lowered the E''s with RKL. I kept this guitar for about 20 years, then went to a Kline universal with the same set up for several years after that. I sold the Kline when I bought my current Emmons PP 12 string. It came set up LKR and I didn't have any problem adjusting to the different change, BUT I still like the RKL better because I could go from a lower on the E's to a raise so much smoother. My E's raise with LKL.. I have my left knee levers as close together as possible, but it still bugs me with the slight time delay in moving my left knee from the right to the left or vice versa, to get the change. I just cannot get one continuous, seamless change with the raise and lower on the same knee. Personally, I think it is better to have the two changes on different knees. |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 5:53 pm
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| Gene Jones wrote: |
| Lowering the "E's" with RKL is not only the "code of the west", but is also the "law" for original Sho-Bud owners. |
Its just by God un-American to do it any other way!
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Larry Hamilton
From:
Amarillo,Tx
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 8:39 pm
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I play the Day setup and lower the E's RKL. E to F on the LKR. Works for me. 
_________________
Keep pickin', Larry |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 22 Jan 2009 8:54 pm
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I'm glad I'm not alone in loving that smooth F-Eb sweep.
I believe I read somewhere that Buddy Emmons put the E's on the same leg because he figured they would never be used at the same time. I guess there are as many arguments for having them on the same knee; I just can't get used to having them both on the left, and like many have stated here, this all started when Bobbe Seymour sent me a Sho~Bud some years back with the factory setup on it. Until then, I was just raising and lowering wherever. (I had some interesting steels, to say the least). Once I locked into that change, there was no going back. |
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Rick Kreuziger
From:
Merrillan, Wisconsin
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Posted 23 Jan 2009 6:21 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
I think I understand what Mike is talking about. On my Williams, I have the first string raise to G#, second string to E, and (for me) string 7 raise to G# on a second staggered LKL. As with Mike's guitar, the cross shaft that the knee lever is attached to does not span the whole width of the E9th undercarriage with mine ending about 2 inches from the front apron of the guitar. On his, it probably extends enough to get a bell crank in position for strings 4 & 8, but not above the fourth string. The cross shaft on my guitar for the lever Mike wants to move to the left knee (Strings 1 & 2)serves only to mount the knee lever and a bell crank that a rod hooks to and connects to another bellcrank on a cross shaft closer to the changer that does extend all the way across the undercarriage space allowing bellcranks for strings 1 & 2. This cross shaft is the second shaft from the changer on my guitar. This is what Mike would need to do to add those changes to the lever on his left knee. Or do some creative bending and angling of the rods.
I do favor guitars that all the cross shafts span the whole width of the undercarriage to make changing setups easier. |
So it's really not that the E lowers COULDN'T be moved, but that Mike didn't have the right parts to do it. Perhaps the Williams design characteristics on the cross shaft length has to do with more flexibility of knee lever mounting position?
The way the original post is worded, it makes it sound like a design flaw; it's really not.
These are very well engineered guitars.
Rick |
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