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Topic: Tuning Names |
Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 12:12 pm |
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As I've mentioned several times before in various conversations here, the tuning with the intervals (from bottom to top)(6-1-3-5-6-1-3-5) was called, "Orchestra Tuning," in the old days. In the early days it was most often A6. But these days the C6 version is neck and neck with it. But it is still orchestra tuning no matter what the key.
There is another tuning that goes (from bottom to top)(4-6-1-3-5-6-1-3). This was Don Helms' E6 tuning. And it's Bobbe Seymore's C6. Unfortuneately, this set of intervals doesn't have a name.
Then there is the E9/E13 tuning whose unique quality is generally associated with Leon McAulliffe and or Tom Morrell. This is an 8 string tuning but the six important strings of this tuning are (from bottom to top)(D-F#-G#-B-C#-E). The other two strings vary by personality. Also, no name.
I think that instead of talking about tunings in the way that we do, we could reduce confusion by finding a way to refer to the set of distinguishing intervals (such as orchestra tuning). When someone says C6, it isn't always clear whether they mean Orchestra tuning or Helms/Seymore tuning. When they say E6 or E13, I'm often not sure whether they mean Helms/Seymore or McAulliffe/Morrell. It leads to alot of unnecessary discussion and sorting out in order to clarify what is being said in reference to various tunings.
There is, of course alot less trouble with 6 string tunings and/or with tunings like B11, C6/A7 or C6/A9. But I wish taht we could find a clearer way of talking about those three extremely important and basic 8 string tunings.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 1:28 pm BASIC C-6th ???
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I thought this was the basic 8 string C-6th TUNING
1. E
2. C
3. A
4. G
5. E
6. C
7. A
8. F |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 3:32 pm
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I hope you're just having a little fun with me, Roger. The C6 you wrote down is what I refered to as the Helms/Seymore tuning. Cindy Cashdollar, among others, prefers it in E6 rather than C6. My point is that its characteristics are the same no matter what key it's in. And that it should be refered to by those characteristics and NOT by its key. Maybe I should put up a pole as to whether C6 players prefer orchestra tuning or Helms/Seymore tuning. Then we'd find out which is prefered.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Mike Harris
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 5:29 pm
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Edward,
now you've got me confused--Cindy gives 3 tunings for 8-string on her website,
none with the notes or intervals of the Helms/Seymore tuning...am I missing something? |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 6:08 pm
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Maybe I am the one who is missing something. People do evolve. My information is old. In any case, the tuning in question seems to be quite popular in both C6 and E6.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 3:48 am
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Close to what you call "Helms/Seymour" is the "Little Roy Wiggins" E13 - 5 b7 1 3 5 6 1 3 low to high - only the two bottom strings are changed. And this is actually, I would have thought, closer to Tom Morrell's (10 string) E13 than the McAuliffe version.... There are so many variations that I would humbly suggest the only meaningful categorization is which note you have on top - 1, 3 or 5. (And then again, some people put the 6 on top, or the 2, or even a b7  .... and at least one Forumite puts a 4 on top  )
Nick |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 9:41 am
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The Roy Wiggins E13 is the E version of C13. The exact same intervals. We could just call that set up the standard 13 tuning. What sets McAuliffe/Morrell tuning apart is the use of the 9th in place of the tonic, or in the case of Morrell, in addition to it. Perhaps E9 would be the simplest way to refer to it.
I'm only interested in dealing with the most widely used tunings here. I'm sure that if we looked hard enough we could find someone who put a flatted 5th on top. But that tuning would be what I would call an anomaly (sp?).
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Jim Bates
From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 10:26 am
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It will be very obvious in this thread that "non-standard" or "various" are the STANDARD.
A lot of us just tuned to something that was pretty and added things to give us various chord possibilities. For instance, when I first started playing around on a lap steel, I tuned to the NBC chimes on the radio (3-1 -2) and later discovered that was a C chord. Later the Jerry Byrd course taught me C 6th, etc.
As several of us have already said - do your own thing with tuning and learn to play it.
Thanx,
Jim |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 2:03 pm
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It sounds like you are using a 6 string low C6. Nothing unusual about that. Having now taken a recent look at Cindy Cashdollar's website, I can see that she uses Orchestra Tuning in A and in C as well as the McAulliffe E9. Nothing so unusual about those either.
But what I'm trying to discuss here is not what tunings to use but what to call the basic configurations that make up the most often used tunings. Then when a discussion of tunings occurs, we will have an easier way to talk about them. Notice that with my method I didn't have to spell out any of the tunings. But if you read my original post here, you knew what tunings I was talking about.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 3:55 pm
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I think the best approach is to list the tuning when you mention it in a post. Mentioning whether it's low to high or high to low would be helpful.
Expecting a bunch of musicians to conform to anything is like herding cats.
Lately I use Leavitt with a couple of extra srings(lo-hi F# C# E G Bb C D F) an the McAulliffe E13 which I've always thought was one of the "standard" tunings (E G# D F# G# B C# E) Sometimes I change one or two strings and still call it McAulliffe E13.
Fred |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 5:33 pm
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Those are two tunings in which I'm developing a keen interest. I'd love to hear some sound clips. 
And yes. That is part of what I'm getting at. The important thing about a tuning is its unique characteristics, in the Case of the McAulliffe tuning, the use of the ninth inside of what is basicly a 6th/13th tuning.
But you may be right about herding cats..... 
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 7:38 am
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I had never heard A6 tuning referred to as "Orchestra Tuning" before this discussion. Where did the phrase originate?
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Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 12:09 pm
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| In the pit! |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 11:53 pm
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| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
| I had never heard A6 tuning referred to as "Orchestra Tuning" before this discussion. Where did the phrase originate? |
I don't know. I can't even remember where I read it. Nick Manaoloff?, Stacey Phillips?, Bob Brozman?, who knows? I know it was said in reference to the very early days of 8 string electric guitars. I've read copious amounts of stuff old and new. I guess just because I read it doesn't mean it's even true.  It sure sounds good, though.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia
Last edited by Edward Meisse on 19 Jan 2009 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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