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Topic: Ok, So Which Bar Is Actually The Best Bar ? |
Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 7 Jan 2009 9:00 pm |
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I did a little research in the present and archive topics and threads and feel that this question must be asked. I found eight different types of bars mentioned or promoted and all were professed to be the best the individual has ever used. Are these just personal pros and cons, personal dislikes and preferences to a multitude of tone bars steel guitar players use? (weren’t they once called steels?)
There are ceramic, stainless steel, nickel steel, high tensile steel, chromed brass, glass, lead filled glass and, the list continues.
Has there ever been a proven test to determine which bar gives the best sustain, the better tone and/or the easiest to use? I have feeling, like most steel guitar brands, the entire choice is nothing more than personal preference. Is this true?
By the way, I am not hitting on bar size, just the end result of the various bars. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 7 Jan 2009 10:37 pm
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What Mike said.  |
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David Hartley
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Posted 7 Jan 2009 11:16 pm Hi
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I thought a bar was a bar until i bought my first bjs bar.
Bill stroud for president! (thats a bit of a late shout but next time round i will vote for bill)
Getting up for work now. Got a mouse in my loft too i can hear!
David |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 1:15 am
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| I admit that I've never played with an old Emmons bar, so I guess I need to go find one and try it. But I have tried a bunch of different types, and of those, nothing comes close to the BJS bar, to my tastes. |
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Hook Moore
From:
South Charleston,West Virginia
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 4:03 am
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Which bar is best? There is no correct answer. All you will get will be opinions. I think the best bar is the one that sounds best to your ears and the one that makes you happy.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 4:36 am
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| I'm sure there are plenty that work well. I started with a Dunlop, then went to a BJS bar. Night and day difference. Love my BJS bar. Looking for a 7/8" used backup but they'll sell fast on the forum. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 5:19 am
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David,
What brand of bar/s did you use Prior to using a BJS bar, if you don't mind me asking?
And what I still would like to know is this:
What "exactly" is it about a BJS bar that you like the most, as compared to other (Chrome Plated) bars you've previously owned before using a BJS?
The key word is "Chrome Plated" since that's what we'd be comparing. So please don't compare it as opposed to a "Stainless Steel Bar" or a "Highly Polished Stainless Steel Bar."
------------------------------------
Now to answer the original question:
Les,
First since you mentioned it, I'll say. Always remember this: A well known fact is, that Endorsements, "by known greats" will sell anything that's marketed. It's a marketing technique that's been going on for centuries. Why? Because it works! It sells items.
From automotive industries, (you name it) right on down the line. manufacturers will indeed use endorsements to sell his/her line of products.
Now! In the small world, of Steel or Pedal Steel players, that huge "world full of many greats" (movie stars, etc) gets narrowed down to only a very select few. Get only ONE of them to endorse a steel product, and your sales will skyrocket, as will the price. Why? Because Most Everyone wants to sound like what they feel the famous endorser used, regardless.
I can assure you that David Hartley played and sounded just as well, previous to what he's using now for his bar. Go back and listen to his older early recordings, and see for yourself. Both before he used the bar he's now using and then after he used BJS, and see for yourself if you notice any difference. You then be the judge on what you hear.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying it's wrong to use endorsements, absolutely not! What I am saying is, it works! And, works quite well (I might add) in selling any product.
I use a Dunlop 7/8" x 3 3/8" (Wt. 8.5 Oz.)
Ernie Ball 7/8" x 3 1/4" (Wt 8 Oz.) that I had replated with Industrial Chrome Plating.
Last but not least, my original G.E.S. 1" x 3 1/4" (7 Oz.) that's drilled and plugged, that definitely provides a bit more of a mellow tone. (Probably due more, to it's lighter weight)
The weights, were just now taken using a "Pelouze Postal Scale Model P2"
Don
Last edited by Don Brown, Sr. on 8 Jan 2009 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 5:24 am
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I like my BJS bar the best. I also have a glass bar for a more muted sound and a hollowed out Dunlop chrome plated bar that is super slick. It gets used when I want a more mellow tone but it has a bit less sustain than the BJS.
Another big question is what length, diameter bar and should it be solid or hollow, chrome plated, stainless etc. I played for many years with a 7/8" diameter bar and last year switched to a 15/16" bar. Didn't cost me any speed and the 15/16" seems to be much easier to grip, allowing my right hand to relax a bit more.
Greg |
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Tom Quinn
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 6:13 am
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| Dick's Place in Mendocino. And the Emmons bar of days gone by... |
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W. C. Edgar
From:
Iowa City Iowa, Madison CT, Nashville, Austin, Phoenix
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 6:23 am
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Unless it's one of those crappy old Ernie Ball bars that are brass or whatever that have been plated and the plating comes off, I think a Bar is a Bar. Sure I've tried the BJS (a fine Bar) and others and I think that what I use is a standard old Emmons Bar but when it comes right down to it you can either play or you can't. The best Bar in the world even all highly polished with your birthstone inlaid in the end won't make you play any better.
www.wcedgar.com
www.myspace.com/wcedgar
Last edited by W. C. Edgar on 8 Jan 2009 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 6:52 am
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W.C.,
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The best Bar in the world even all highly polished with your birthstone inlaid in the end won't make you play any better.
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Isn't that the truth!
Don |
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Matthew Walton
From:
Fort Worth, Texas
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 6:56 am
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Although it would be cool!
_________________
If something I wrote can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
1981 MSA "The Universal" Bb6 S-12 9/5 | 2024 Excel Robostar Bb6 S-12 8/5 | 2009 MSA SuperSlide C6 S-12 | Peavey Nashville 112 |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 7:53 am
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I get the feeling that something new (different) can seem better, particularly if your "hero" uses it.
There are differences in bars:
1.Tone
2.Smoothness
3.Sustain
4.Durability
5.Feel
6.Weight
6.Size
Some of the above are interrelated.
Re tone...hollowed out, plastic coated, plastic, glass, light, and low density metals will in general give fewer highs.
Re smoothness...measurements on state of the art surface analyzers show a great difference in both surface contour and micro smoothness of the different bars.
Re sustain...The highs fall off quicker than the 300Hz range, but even quicker with a mellow toned bar...the 300 Hz range (what some mean by sustain) still falls off a bit quicker than with the "twangy" bars.
Roughness/smoothness can play a large part here...if you get vibrato via rubbing the bar (not rolling) too smooth might cost you some "apparent sustain" up in Hughey Land. Try comparing your bar(s) while moving and not moving in the upper registers.
Re durability...as some have said, certain surfaces can flake off. Certain constructions can scratch more easliy. Dropping the bar can dent/shatter it. Dent a plastic, metal, surface and the area around the dent will become raised.
Re feel...warm, cold, sticks to your hand, a size and weight you like all make a difference in how well you will like your bar. These depend upon the construction of the bar.
Re weight...this varies with the density of the material...the steels are generally the most dense, hence will weight the most for a given size. Some like heavy, some like light.
Re size...the latest rage is 15/16 dia bars. Length is usually found from 3.25" to 3.83". I never know what someone means when they say 10 string or 12 string bar as longer bars are used on 10s, and shorter bars are used on 12s and 14s. It may be more a matter of hand size and feel. JB used a bar shorter than 3" and less than 7/8" dia...but JB was short on twang, and long on sweet.
The white Zirconia (zirconium oxide = ceramic) bars are the smoothest, most scratch resistant, a bit lighter than the metals, and have been said "not slip" as compared. Ralph Mooney gave one a shatter test at the International convention as some may recall. Buddy E used one extensively on C6. Problem is that they cost a lot (a lot to make also) and are very hard to get.
Bars are NOT the same, and preferences are Not the same. Material density alone does not do it, or lead an/or gold would win. Elasticity plays a big role in tone.
Good luck in your search...it should be a comparative one. |
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Josh Haislip
From:
Midland, Texas
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 8:10 am
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| Ginny's Little Longhorn. |
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JACK HEERN
From:
MURPHYSBORO,IL. USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 8:51 am
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There's a nice Bar on Broadway named THE WHEEL but, BJS serves stronger drinks.   |
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Brett Day
From:
Pickens, SC
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 9:20 am
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I love my Sacred Steel bar. I got it in St. Louis at the ISGC after I "roadtested" a Carter steel guitar. It's the best bar I've got.
Brett |
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Tamara James
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 9:45 am
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| W. C. Edgar wrote: |
The best Bar in the world even all highly polished with your birthstone inlaid in the end won't make you play any better.
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100% correct. No arguments from me.
BUT then, having a black guitar and cowboy boots doesn't make you play any better, but they sure give me a warm fuzzy feeling when I play. 
I love my BJS bar with my birthstone. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 10:18 am
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My favorite is the Jim Burden Bullet 15/16th's.I have a few other brands which are all good but this one just feel right to me. 
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 10:58 am
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| Tootsie's on Broadway is a pretty good bar, but the music is loud. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 11:00 am
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I think anybody should use whatever they think works for them. I tried everything I could find before I stumbled onto a BJS bar by accident. That includes Dunlop, Ernie Ball, John Pearse, and some others that I can't remember. I was a guitar dealer at the time, and I ordered one of everything I could find. They all worked fine.
Then I bought a Sierra guitar that came with a bar that had what looked like a script "S" on the end. I thought it was a Sierra bar - I didn't know anything about BJS or Bill Stroud, since I had only recently started playing pedal steel.
In any case, I just found that bar glided over the strings easier than anything I had tried, and sounded better and smoother to me. It was few years later when I joined the forum that I heard about BJS bars and decided to try one. I ordered it, and believe me, nobody was more surprised when I got a bar in the mail that was exactly like my "Sierra" bar and realized that what I thought was a script S in B∫S was actually a J. No problem, I now have one for home and one for the gig bag.
I assume that what I like is the extremely industrial strength chrome plating. I would never argue that somebody else couldn't do this - just that I like it. |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 11:23 am
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I'm not here to Endorse BJS bars but...
What i've noticed the first time i used a BJS bar was the smoothness 'sustain and Durability after you using it for over 18 years now, i don't have anything to do with Bill Stroud, i just know he's a good business man to deal with and his BJS bars are top of the line for me, a few weeks ago someone ask the same question about what good bars were out there and i said that BJS bar were good and that mine was still good after 18 years except the birthstone fell off and the sticker came off also but it did not affect the playability of the bar then Bill read the post and said he was gonna send me a new birthstone and sticker free of charge and a few days later i received not one but two new birthstone and two new sticker and he also send me an email explaining how to glue the birthstone back on the bar.
Not only a good product but also good business and in my book that's #1 for me.
Pat C.
_________________
Comeau SD10 4x5, Comeau S10 3x5, Peavey Session 500,Fender Telecaster,Fender Stratocaster, Fender Precision,1978 Ovation Viper electric. Alvarez 4 strings Violin electric.
Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIYiaomZx3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2GhZTN_yXI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDTw2zNriI |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 11:48 am
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My favorite bar is one by BJS.
It is the John Hughey, 15/16" model.
Real smoooooooth! |
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