ZB Setup Questions

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

Since you can't search the forum for "ZB" I'm not sure whether this has been covered but would sure love some advice/help.

I just got my first ZB and the pedal action is stiff and short. So should I move the pull rod assembly closer to the pivot point to make them easier and move further?

Also, does making the 6 string rod shorter and the 3 string longer (thereby increasing the angle of the swivel that the pull rods connect to) make the 3 string move to pitch quicker than the 6? I thought that originally but then I'm starting to think the 3 is not really any further from the pivot point than it was, just now offset so maybe it doesn't travel any faster than it does if both strings are even.

I also notice that the bell crank (if you will) has several holes to attach it to the body. What exactly would be accomplished by shifting the point at which it pivots further or closer to the pedals than it does now?

Slim

Bob Hamilton · From: California Central Coast

Slim, the closer you get the assembly to the pivot point, the longer travel and softer pull you will have. Just realize that you will probably need to move all three sets of pull rods the same direction as a unit as they are sometimes intertwined in the yokes. The yokes should be balanced so that the adjusters hit the endplates simultaneously. That will also soften the pulls somewhat. Welcome to the ZB world. Last bit of advice is don't get in a hurry, as ZBs can take a few tries to get all the bugs out, but they're worth it in the end. BH

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

Thanks Bob. When you say ajust the yokes, your saying shorten one rod, lengthen the other until the hit at the same time, correct?

Brendan Mitchell · From: Melbourne Australia

Where the pedal rod connects to the ?? on the guitar there are 2 holes , if you use the hole second from the pivot it should make the travel longer and the pull softer .

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

Are you talking about the yoke? I think that's what you call the swiveling part the connects the pull rod to the bell crank.

Bob Hamilton · From: California Central Coast

Correct Slim, There are a couple of holes on the yokes to use to balance the yoke as it swivels. The different gauge of strings used makes these holes necessary. In some cases, you can flip the yokes around end for end and get a better balance. Look carefully at the distance of the pull rod holes from the center anchor screw. BH

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

The last guitar you ever want to toy with is a ZB. Many have tried, most all have made things worse. You need to send that guitar to Greg Jones, Billy Knowles, or a ZB mechanic that KNOWS what he is doing. You will not do it your self even if someone tells you. There are tricks to a ZB to make them play right.

Joe A. Camacho · Posted 5 Jan 2009 5:09 pm

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

If your floor pedals have the double option for the pivot point where the pedal rods attach, try moving that closer first. It's way easier and can make a big difference in feel. Travel is increased but the resistance is less.

Dave

Brendan Mitchell · From: Melbourne Australia

No Slim I was not talking about the yoke . At the ends of the pedal rod you have the pedal one end and the other end connects to an L shaped lever that pivots and pushes the flat bar that the YOKE is attached to . On My guitar there are 2 holes in this L shaped lever , the hole furthest from the pivot point will give more travel and a softer pull .
Edit :
I am talking about pedal rods , not pull rods .

Duncan Hodge · From: DeLand, FL USA

I would like to second Joe C's amen to what Kevin said...Amen, Amen. Kevin knows of what he speaks and Joe C. knew what he was amenning to when he amened. Be very careful memphislim. I'm fixing to take my ZB up to Billy Knowles in the near future to have it tweaked and make it "more better good". It will be a good investment and save a lot of heatache
Duncan
_________________
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Just a question.. Does anyone have a picture of the undercarriage handy to throw up on the screen?

Is in fact, a ZB so much different than others, that it would have to be sent off in order to adjust it for decent playing?

This is not a joke at all, nor meant to be. I simply don't understand why it should be all that different from any other mechanical operation.

Knowing though, on the other hand, there are probably many who simply don't understand enough about mechanical operations, and leverages, etc., to be qualified. That's understandable, but then that would go for not being able to do the setups on any pedal steel period. Which I guess, many can't do.

It's just the first time I've heard of them being so hard to work on to get right. And that does bring my curiousity and interest in knowing exactly why that is..

Thanks,
Don

memphislim · From: Austin, Texas

I'm not your average pedal steel mechanic, many bring me there's to work on so I do have some ability, just have not done the ZB thing before. That being said, thanks to all for the input so far.

I have tried the outside hole on the pedal rod, it did make a slight difference but not enough. I do notice that individually the A and B pedal don't seem that stiff but together it seems like it should be a little easier. How about the alternate pivot points in the bell crank? There's 3 holes, mine pivot around the middle as do others I've seen. Any one experiment using those?

My other question hasn't really been answered, does the offset yokes make the forward string travel faster?

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Don, ZB mechanices are totally unique to themselves. Yes, they are that much different. There are tricks to stabilize and balance the pulls. I have seen many try who thought that they knew what they were doing. If the ZB is not stabilized and balanced properly they will not play consistently in tune. Basic understanding of the ZB system will not do it. The good news is that once they are set they pretty much stay that way unless they dry out or you lose a clip. They are VERY prone to lubrication. Greg Jones can make a ZB play butter smooth. I use to do them, but I build new ones with modern mechanics now. I refer all of my work to Greg or Billy now. They are both ZB mechanic masters.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Slim,

I can't guarantee you'll find anything helpful here, but it might be worth a shot. There's sure enough pages to dig through on ZB.. Smile

Click Here

Let us know if it helps.
Good Luck.
Don

Bob Hamilton · From: California Central Coast

Slim, you can move the pivot point toward the yoke, and that will help some. As far as the yokes themselves go, try to keep them parallel to the crossbars, and get them to arrive at the end of their travel at the same time. That may involve using the different holes in the yoke to adjust the pivot equilibrium or balance. It can take some time. Good Luck, BH

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Kevin, I too have seen many people who feel or felt they could do many things, that they ended up not being able to do.

But come one now! There definitely can't be anything in regard/s to a pedal steel that's SO UNIQUE that only a special few can get them to work properly!

That's just not so, in the mind of this old boy! Very Happy

If someone made it, and it worked fine, then it would sure still work as fine. There's nothing that can't be figured out using a common logical approach in solving ANY AND ALL mechanical devices. And truly, there are NO pedal steels all that complicated. But again, yes! To many people that would hold true.

I've seen people who didn't know how to do much of anything mechanical or otherwise. But that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

Granted it may take longer, it may also involve trying one way and having to move things a bit here or there to get it precisely right. But it can be accomplished by others as well.

I mean it's not as if everything is hidden and sealed in epoxy that you'd first have to melt out to get to the components to do a repair.

But! I do understand what you're saying and what you're meaning.

Have a great New Year.
Don

richard burton · From: Britain

I modded my ZB and got it as smooth as butter.
I put helper springs on the raises, and also used longer lower return springs.
This enabled me to keep the pedal and lever movements short.

Brandin · From: Newport Beach CA. USA

Well Slim, when ya get this thing finished, post some pictures of it.

GB

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

yeah...but you better have a professional take the pictures, that's not something you want to toy with.

Duncan Hodge · From: DeLand, FL USA

I agree with what Chris said. He appears to be a very wise man. Then again, I tend to think that most folks are much wiser and smarter than me...only on account of the fact that most are.
Duncan
_________________
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

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