Will Work for Brass (or Gold) Tonebar/Steel

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

I have seen ads for tonebars/slides using various materials including: Steel, Stainless Steel, Chrome Plated, Brass, Copper, Titanium, Ceramics, Glass, etc.

Many folks swear by one or the other. In general, most agree that heavier is better. Although some do prefer the softer tone of glass, etc.

The density of metals is measured in specific gravity. For instance the specific gravity of gold is around 19. This means that a bucket of gold weighs about 19 times more than a bucket of water.

Titanium is very light, compared to most other metals. It is only about 4.5.

Depending upon the amounts of carbon, chromium, manganese, molybdenum, tungsten, or other metals in the alloy, the specific gravity of steel is somewhere around 7.87.

The specific gravity of brass is around 8.5.

The specific gravity of copper is around 8.96.

Brass and copper are both denser (heavier) than steel. So, why aren't there more tonebars made from these two metals? My guess is because both of them are softer, therefore prone to greater wear? Both of these could be plated with chromium, which is much harder than steel.
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I have a large, heavy machine called a metal-cutting bandsaw. It cuts cleanly through brass, leaving a smooth cut. If anyone here on this forum would like to send me a piece of brass or copper, I will cut it to the length of your choice (plus/minus one eighth inch). I will cut one for myself too. Smile

I will pay for return shipping. If you already have a piece of metal lying around, the only cost to you will be shipping it to me.

A 12 inch length of solid brass, one inch in diameter, is about $30 on ebay, including shipping. This size is big enough to make 4 bars, about 3 inches, each. Or, 3 bars about 4 inches, each. This means we could make our own for $7.50-$10.00 each.

http://stores.ebay.com/metals4u-online_Brass-and-Copper_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ204767015QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I have a Dunlop 919 Stainless Steel bar 3/4" in diameter. I can't hold on to the darn thing....

I have a Dunlop 926 Stainless Steel Lap Dawg "Steven's Type" bar. It doesn't feel right either. My thumb gets in the way on the lower strings.

I have a Dunlop 224 Hollow-Tube for Slide Guitar. It is comfortable. I can do hammer-ons on my 6-string lap steel without dropping it. But, because it is less dense than the steel bars, the tone is thinner. It is about 1-1/8" in diameter. I thought about trying to fill the hollow tube with some combination of bb shot or sand and epoxy, but a solid tube would be better balanced. I would like to try out one of these in solid stock with diameters of 7/8", 1", and 1-1/8". If you would like to try out this idea too, please PM me.

Or, if you like, we could make some VERY heavy ones in Gold (19+ s.g.), Platinum (21.5), or Silver (10.5). <very>

Gary Boyett · From: Colorado

I did pretty much the same thing you are doing only with glass. Believe me, I tried almost everything and only found poured lead or pre-made stainless or brass to work. Light is not better unless you want less sustain.
The bb's absorb the sound. The sand kills it. We use a little sand or glitter for color but a full bar of sand was awful. You can see some of the bars at http://www.glassbars.com

Good luck in your venture.

Jim Konrad · From: The Great Black Swamp USA

Jim Konrad · From: The Great Black Swamp USA

Ray,

You will find most agree that the best tone is a bar of brass with chrome plating. The problem is the chrome wears off then you are left with a softer brass with a different tone. You will actually wear grooves in plain brass pretty quick.

I think the stainless bars are an answer to the chrome wearing off, not an answer to a tone problem.

I am surprised you do not like the lap dawg?? I wish they made a stainless lap dawg!! At the same price LOL!!

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

Gary, thanks for the tips on the bb's, sand, and epoxy! It's always good to know what does not work.

Poured lead is a superb idea. Lead is cheap and has a much higher specific gravity (11+) than any of the usual metals used in making tonebars.

I didn't see any price information on your site. Is this posted anywhere?
Is it possible to buy the glass blanks and pour our own lead for those of us with little means?

Here is an idea that may be fruitful for you:

http://glowinc.com/glow-in-the-dark/MSDS/msds.aspx

Glow-Inc. makes the strongest glow-in-the-dark powders, paints, etc. in the world!

The V10 is the strongest and most expensive. I paint the tips of my fishing rods for night fishing. Expose the painted surface to a black light for about 10 minutes and it will glow all night long. While this may be somewhat of a novelty idea for tonebars, it could be handy for seeing the fret markers in low light conditions. You could call it something like the "Krypton Bullet Bar".......

Some of their products can be heated to 2500 F. before breaking down. Since lead melts at about 621 F. it should be compatible.

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Jim, I stand corrected. The Lap Dawg is indeed chrome plated brass. As for not liking this bar, I probably just need to have someone show me how to use it.

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Eldon Cangas · From: Ontario, Canada

I recently bought a Dunlop glass slide with 1/8 inch walls. I started with a 3/8 inch metal core, wrapped lead solder around it until it just barely fit inside and epoxy'd it in place. While it doesn't quite have the sustain of a s.steel bar i really like the smoothness and I'm willing to make the sacrifice. At this point it's personal preference. I'd be willing to try Boyett's glass bars. The only drawback I see is than my homemade bar does not have a round nose. Eldon

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

Hi Les, you talk about the temperatures... and how a little coolish can affect your playing. The lowest temp we have ever had here is 18. However, it does get up to 115 here in June! Talk about a hot potatoe!!

Eldon, try Gary Boyette's glass bar. I have one on the way. It's hard to imagine a better combination than heavy and smooth.... eh?

Eldon Cangas · From: Ontario, Canada

Ray, if you could let us know what you think once you get it, I'd sure be interested in hearing. Happy New Year! Eldon

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

Eldon, Happy New Year to you, my new friend.

Let me put it this way:

Point one: Lead is heavier than damned near anything (remotely affordable). Heavy = best tone.

Point two: Glass is slicker than anything except snot on a doorknob (used to keep the kids out).

Therefore: Order Gary's bar now!

Are we clear on this? Laughing

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

Eldon, I meant for my response to come out in the nicest possible way, but it may have sounded stronger than intended.

Of course I'll post a review here.... One thing to consider: Glass breaks! So, if you fall in love with it, you will need to own at least two.

Eldon Cangas · From: Ontario, Canada

No offense taken Ray. Warmest Regards, Eldon

Ray Langley · From: Northern California, USA

I've read several comments in other threads in the archives about the difficulty of holding on to a steel bar in extreme temperatures. Mostly it is the cold that has been discussed. In my area it always gets well over 100 degrees in the summer. We have to put a towel over the steering wheel. A steel bar left on the dashboard would be impossible to handle.

I have a question for Gary about this regarding the lead-filled, glass bar. Glass is a lousy conductor and lead is a GREAT conductor. Perhaps this combination would work well for temp extremes, with a little pre-planning?

For instance, the bar could be placed in the fridge to cool it down slowly. When playing, it should stay cool for quite a while as the heat from the lead dissipates slowly through the glass. Putting the bar in a warm oven (not microwave) for a bit should keep it warm for a longer time in cold weather?

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