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Topic: invitation to the blues |
Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 3:30 am |
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I was just watching Youtube and Jay Dee was playing
with Ray Price and Roger Miller. |
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Charles Curtis
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 4:11 am
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| Does anyone have the link to this? Thank you. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 4:22 am
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If it's this one, the steel player is Jack Evins, not Jay Dee. Jay Dee would prob'ly have been a freshman in high school about this time, which would be late-50's.
Evins does look a little like Jay Dee in this one, though, especially the smile. 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 4:59 am
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Check out the slants that he was doing. Thats the way it was done BKL...before knee levers.
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Paul Norman
From:
Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 5:16 am
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Thanks Herb,
It favors Jay Dee.
The man does a fine job. |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 7:09 am
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Re: Herb's YouTube link:
Man! What monster technique Jack Evins' had (especially the great bar-slant work). Make's me wanna just quit playing... or more realistically, start practicing A LOT MORE! 
Thanks for the link, Herb.
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Sep 2008 9:58 am
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Yup, I noticed this one when that link was posted a while ago. Just a phenomenal sound, I agree on the need to "practice a lot more" to get those slants sounding good like this.
I hope this puts forever to rest the arguments that nobody should ever consider learning pedal steel without immediately jumping on the entire and "mandatory" 3+4 or 3+5 E9 setup. Once you get used to having all those levers, I think it tends to take away a lot of the incentive to really learn how to do those slants properly. In hindsight, I'm not so sure that's such a great idea. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2008 1:45 pm
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I count two slants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pg1csk_PN0&NR=1
(there may be some I did not see)
1. Forward slant using the original way to get a 9th chord on strings 4, 5 and 6 (as we tune today).
2. Reverse slant ending on a major chord when one used the original E9th copedent.
IMHO, using the D knee lever to get a "9th" (strings 1, 2 and 6) that lowers the 2nd string a half tone, does not sound as good as using a 3 fret slant, and "squeezing" the "A" pedal to get that 9th sound on "ITTB". Which Is what I always use, even today, instead of the knee lever for this particular "9th" sound.
Ironically, I do use the knee lever to get the "9th" sound on "Half a Mind". It sounds better to my ears than using the slant. This of course may be because I am trying to duplicate exactly what Jimmy Day did on "Invitation to the Blues" and what Buddy and Bobby Garrett did on "Half a Mind".
Finally, on the original E9th tuning they did not use an E note in the tuning on the bottom. So they had to use a 3 fret reverse slant to get it. Later Jimmy D added it and then everyone had to have it. So today, few players are missing the 8th string E note.
However it DOES mess up the chord in some strums; where the bottom root E note is better left out like on the C6 tuning using pedal 6.
That is why I believe it was not included in the original E13 tuning; which preceeded pedals on lapsteels.
I cover this in detail in my book, "The Evolution of the Pedal Steel Guitar".
carl
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2008 2:05 pm Follow up.....
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Check out this video and see* how fellow forumite Mike Cass plays back up on not only "ITTB", but "Crazy Arms" as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhpKit5oMI&feature=related
Since the day I came onto this forum I have heard NOTHING but accolades about Mike Cass and his unprecedented work ethics and prowess on rebuilding Emmons PSG's. But I had never had the pleasure of seeing or hearing Mike play.
Wow. The man does pick.
may Jesus continue to bless such awesome gifts.
carl
* As usual I could choke the cameraman/technical director to death. Only kidding of course, but it never ceases to amaze me how they can always seem to find EVERY other instrument, but the "pertious" one on the stage.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2008 2:06 pm Follow up.....
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Check out this video and see* how fellow forumite Mike Cass plays back up on not only "ITTB", but "Crazy Arms" as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDhpKit5oMI&feature=related
Since the day I came onto this forum I have heard NOTHING but accolades about Mike Cass and his unprecedented work ethics and prowess on rebuilding Emmons PSG's. But I had never had the pleasure of seeing or hearing Mike play.
Wow. The man does pick.
may Jesus continue to bless such awesome gifts.
carl
* As usual I could choke the cameraman/technical director to death. Only kidding of course, but it never ceases to amaze me how they can always seem to find EVERY other instrument, but the "pertious" one on the stage.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 30 Dec 2008 6:14 pm
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| That is not Jay Dee Maness. Jay Dee was born in 1945. He would have been in junior high school at that time. |
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Mike Benzschawel
From:
madison wi
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Posted 30 Dec 2008 10:42 pm ray price
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man, when you listen to stuff like that, can you blame folks for givin up on today's country? that old stuff has such feel...
gives me shivers. 
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....lloyd green is a steel guitar hero... |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 5:05 am
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Here is Ray doing "Crazy Arms". You can hear the "Hank" influence in this early version. The camera work does not get all the steel players solo. If you watch closely, about 1:53, you will see another steel player sitting in the background waiting to back up another artist. Looks like a very young Emmons.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=I5zxCtT5uts&feature=related |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 7:10 am
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| Does anybody have more info about Jack Evans? Hard to believe a guy this good stayed so far under the radar. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 7:21 am
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I think Evins gave up professional music to go into law enforcement, becoming a sheriff in TN.
Jimmy Day introduced me to Van Howard, the harmony singer with Price, many years ago. Van went into banking and did well, after the music bidness silliness wore off.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 8:33 am
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Thanks for the input Herb.
I was given a DVD with that video on it. I have looked at it several times. But for the life of me I simply do not believe the steel 'break' is coming out of that Fender multi-neck steel.
Of course it could have been. IE; they could have installed a pull rod and pedal, as many of us did back then. But still, I don't think that sound was coming out of that guitar.
I imagine that the entire episode was lip-synched, however I do not know this to be the case for sure.
These programs have always infuriated me. The fake smiles and clapping, fake body language of ladies dressed up like overlly exuberant fans and fake their childish applause makes me sick when I watch them. How unprofessional. My wife often chuckled when I turned away each time the camera showed their silly antics. 
IMO, it simply catered to a mentalitly lower than what most have. And I despised it then, and now.
And I repeat what I said in my post above about cameramen and technical directors. Sadder is; it continues unto this day.
Oh well 
c.
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A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Johnny Thomasson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 9:58 am
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| C Dixon wrote: |
I imagine that the entire episode was lip-synched, however I do not know this to be the case for sure.
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Neither do I. The fiddle guys are way off-synch too, but with youtube videos it's hard to tell.
It's still a great video though; thanks for posting it.
Happy New Year to all!
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Johnny Thomasson |
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Paul Graupp
From:
Macon Ga USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 10:20 am
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I agree with Carl's assement of Mike Cass but I think someone has misspelled his name....There needs to be an L in there as in CLASS !! 
Regards, Paul |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 4:17 pm
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| Johnny Thomasson wrote: |
| C Dixon wrote: |
I imagine that the entire episode was lip-synched, however I do not know this to be the case for sure.
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Neither do I. The fiddle guys are way off-synch too, but with youtube videos it's hard to tell.
It's still a great video though; thanks for posting it.
Happy New Year to all! |
They were live recordings, not lip synched, you tube clips are compressed which often causes "off synch" image and even the original films of these shows sometimes are off synch and sometimes weird solo inserts were used. But the WERE live, on the spot recordings, no question about it. And yes, that Crazy Arms steel break was coming out of that quad Fender Stringmaster which had pedals installed by Shot Jackson and the original recording of Invitation To The Blues was also by Jack Evins and most likely with that same Fender. |
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Glen Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 6:47 pm
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| I agree with you, Carl, about the camera men. That has always rankled me. Were they favoring certain instruments or were they just plain clueless? I do agree with Jussi about the Youtube vidoes, though. The tracking on those videos is sometimes off, leading one to believe that the performance is lip synced, although many performances are lip synced. |
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Cartwright Thompson
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 1 Jan 2009 4:02 am
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| Hey C-Man, yes, the guitar in the clips is a triple neck Sho Bud, probably the first T8 Bud, I meant the original recording of the song. It could be either one on the recording though, now that I checked the date ( early May -58 ) I'm beginning to think it's the Sho Bud. Bear Family DVD's don't give the exact date for these shows, but this clip was probably filmed in the summer/fall of -58 ( City Lights was recorded late May -58 ) |
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