Another Question For You on C6

GeneRector · From: Normangee, Texas USA

Howdy! Suppose you are only interested in C6 and want to have made an S10 pedal steel. The number of pedals and knee levers are flexible. What would you consider a good setup or copendent for this pedal steel? In other words, what would be a workable, reasonable number of pedals and kneelevers, etc.? Are there any known problems with such a setup, etc.? My interest is mainly older country music. Your views appreciated! Thanks!
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Always, Gene Rector

Zeke Cory · From: Hinsdale, New York USA

Gene. First off, I must qualify this response with the fact that although I am a lifelong E9th player, I have only been playing C6th about 3 years now, so admittedly, this answer comes from a C6th "newbie". Everything I have read and seen would make me believe that staying with what is generally called a "standard" C6th setup would be the way to go. The standard 5 pedal changes, and the C to B lower on the second string are necessary. This standard copedant has been time tested and works well. Many players also use the 3rd string C to C# raise, and the 4rth string A to Bb raise. There are a couple others that I see quite frequently I am sure are very useful changes as well. Perhaps one of our super C6th player brothers will chime in here and add to this thread to help you out, most likely with more authority than I can provide. Also, I would get as many courses as you can to help out in all this and study every players copedant and familiarize yourself with the sounds they get from their individual tuning. We have an area here on the forum that shows many great players copedant, so start searching here on the forum. My best to you always. Zeke

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

5 and 4 works fine for Buddy Emmons -- I would think that would be enough to fuel a lifetime of learning.

Some only use 4 pedals (opting not to include the 4th and 8th A to B change on P4) but, if I were setting up a C6 only guitar I'd probably go for 5 and 5 and use the standard 5 pedals -- P4 is A to B -- P5 gives you the II9 (D9) -- P6 is the IV9 (F9) -- P7 is the IMa9 (CMa9) -- and P8 is VI7+9 (A7+9 -- also known as the boo-wah pedal for the C to A step and a half 'dive bomber' note on the bottom). For levers I'd do what Buddy does -- raise and lower the C's and A's 1/2 tone. Buddy does the R for raise, L for lower thing -- raises C to C# on LKR -- raises A to Bb on RKR -- lowers C to B on LKL and lowers A to Ab on RKL. The 5th lever could do a number of things -- 'reverse P6' is probably what I'd start with -- E to F on 6 and E to Eb on 2 -- but I like to have a lever to use for trying different changes.

You can't argue with success. IMHO.

If older country music (not jazzed up stuff) is what you're after you probably don't need any of those pedals. Listen to what Jerry Byrd did with 7 strings and no pedals.
(again, just MHO). If stuff like 'Night Life' or some of the C6 instrumentals like 'Four Wheel Drive' or 'At E's' is what you are are after, the setup I described above should work fine.
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

My heart sang a little as I read about the Texan
fellow picker who let the concept of "C6th-only"
surface...I play 12- & 10-string single-neck C 6th
PSG´s,and they lend themselves to any musical style ;
Your knowledge of musical theory,and the way it
applies to the PSG,dictates the output form(Country,
Jazz,Pop...whatever); You may feel more "homeplace"
with a certain set-up and,hopefully,stay with that,
but it´s Your command of the chosen set-up that makes
the music ; there´s never,really,any excuse for cop-
outs like:"...sorry,can´t cut this tune...left my
Country-axe at home..."Stay Cool.McUtsi

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Gene, getting a single neck C6 psg is quite possible
i got a very nice SD10 Emmons E9 converted to C6 from a fo'bro in Ky for a client here in France
5 pedals & 5 knee levers - standard Emmons set up
they might be hard to find but an E9 psg can be converted over to C6
just make sure you find the right person for the job w: the right horn

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Gene, The C6 neck on my guitar is set up like Buddy Emmons. You can see the setup here...
http://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#C6be

I don't really think you need the 4th pedal. On a single neck, I'd have pedals 5 through 8 and the 4 knee levers.

I think that if you're going to just play old country, you'll wish you had a doubleneck before too long. Those E9th necks are sweet for country.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

Sounds to me like you really need to go the 12 string universal Bb6th route.

Rusty Smith · From: Mount Horeb, Wisconsin, USA

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

That´s the spirit of a self-made man...pay Your
wood-sheddin´ dues on that C 6 axe,and You shall be
rewarded ; I´m biased,agreed,but I just happen to
KNOW that a well-constructed 6th-based set-up puts
You in a comfy seat where just about ANY musical
idiom is within reach,but You REALLY have to put
the time in to get there...as always...my set-up
derives from the traditional C 6th,and a few subtle
changes rendered it "no limits"-qualities...
well,it works for me...I´ll submit the copedant
sometime...Bye. McUtsi

Rich Peterson · From: Moorhead, MN

Don't want to hijack this thread, but this may apply.

I'm looking at Sneaky Pete's B6 copedent and wonder how that could be adapted to a 5X5. What would you leave out, or combine, to go from eleven changes to ten? And which would be best on the knees?

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I have posted this tip a few times and am aware most are afraid to try any thing a little different and it is so easy to get used to.Just switch you 9th and 10 th strings over.
That will put your D string over on the 10th and get it out of the way.I have read and heard so many complain about having to skip over the 9th string.Also you can then use a knee lever to raise the 4th and 9th th only.Raising the 4th gives a 9th and raising it with the A&B pedals down will give a 6th and the 9th th will give a fat 6th.Then you can use your A&B pedals with your knee lever that lowers the 4th and 8th and rake all the way across the 9th to the 4th with out having to skip over the 9th.Wish i knew how to tab this.You then still have what every one has on the E 9th plus 95 % of the Fat C6th chords.
Only difference is you will not have the low C as on the 10th string of the C6th,wich is used very little now days.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

Hi,Rich...I should,probably,be studying Sneaky Pete´s
copedant more closely before suggesting too much,
but...I would certainly put his P 4 on a knee,RKL
being the obvious candidate ; likewise,I´d rather
have his P 6 on a knee lever ; I´d have P 5 lower
both the 4th & 8th strings to F,VERY useful ; to
faciliate sweet Hughey-type swells I´d like to have
P 2 & P 7 next to each other ; if I had to discard
one change it would be his LK,really...well,these
are my initial thoughts,but I´ll use some more brain-
power after a cup of coffee...by the way...I totally
LOVE the playing of Sneaky Pete,he was one of my
heroes...See You...McUtsi

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Would you have the pedals more to the right or left?

Sure it is possible, the nice thing is that this would really force you to play C6th!

Ben Edmonds · From: Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA

Just a thought... but a fender 400 with 4 pedals set up like pedals 5-8 on a D10 works pretty well for older sounds and the tone is pretty close too. I have one and I love it, you can add pedals and knee levers on top of that pretty easy and change the setup within minutes.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

I´ve always played a lot of "both-feet-on-the-
pedals" and,consequently,the array has been mainly
to the right ; BUT,last spring I performed a grande
make-over,fueled by the purcase of another guitar ;
the over-all effect being that I simplified the
pedal set-up,down to 5+4 and,as I was at it,moved
all the pedals to the left and,in a manner of speaking,got my volume pedal technique back... this
was intended as an experimental act of brain-
stormery,but I felt right at home with the reborn
set-up ; still,if somebody gave me an old Fender
with just floor pedals I´d sail into the Retro
Sunset with the pedals mid-to-right oriented.
Happy New Year.McUtsi

Bobby Snell · From: Austin, Texas

I like using the high G on the C6, Gene. It seems easier for me to get traditional-sounding phrasing for older country and swing. 5 standard pedals, and 2 knees on my right(lowering 3d string C to B, and the other raising the A's to Bb). It might be nice to have a left knee dropping the middle G to F, as I believe Herby Wallace does. I don't think I would want more than 3 levers, except maybe a 4th as verticle, on the C-neck.

Lot of good country music on the C6th, especially with the high G-G# change, the C-B lever, the 7 pedal...

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I am now waiting for my money to come in to pay for my brand new C6 S10. I am also looking at copedants. I'm leaning heavily at this point towards the standard 5+4 Emmons setup. The reason is that what is not standard to almost everybody is understandable to me and is something I know will be useful from my non pedal playing. The Fraknlin and Jernigan setups are about indecipherable. What I'm thinking is that as I grow into the instrument I will figure out what else I need, if anything. I think it's not wise for a newbie to go all complicated without knowing what he's getting into.
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Amor vincit omnia

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

Edward,it´s a good move to go with the standard
set-up initially,it´s great,it works and if You
need studying materials,input from others etc,it´ll
be a lot easier ; a splendid time for You coming up.
McUtsi

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

I will say pedals 5678 so 4 pedals for sure.I myself would like to have 2 more knees on my guitar so no doubt 4 knees.
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