| Author |
Topic: Single and Double Coil Sounding the Same? |
Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 5:33 am |
|
I just replaced the original single coil pickup in my Mullen SD10 RP with a George L's E-66. (The original Mullen single coil seems to be modeled after an Emmons-type pickup.) My decision was based mostly on getting rid of the single coil hum. I did, however, expect a tonal change. (I am familiar with the E-66, having it installed on several of my past guitars.) I was surprised to discover, upon installing the E-66, that the Mullen sounds almost exactly the same as it did with the factory single coil.
Is this a testament to a guitar's inherent tone, or are there similarities between a single coil designed to replicate the Emmons sound and a humbucker trying to do the same? I'm not saying that Mullen is trying to replicate the Emmons sound pickup-wise, but visual similarities seem to suggest it. The E-66, as we know from the model name, is overtly trying to do it. Any thoughts?
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
|
|
 |
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 7:14 am
|
|
IMHO, the differences in sound between pickups are quite small. Of course, whenever I say that, a lot of players disagree, and that's fine. However, the fact is that changing a pickup can only do two things to the guitar's sound. It can change the EQ slightly, and it can increase or decrease the amount of gain. Of course, a lotta players don't realize you can do both those with the amp controls, too.  |
|
|
|
J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 11:05 am
|
|
I swapped the E66 out of my LeGrande, and put in an Emmons 18k,single coil pickup. Didn't have the effect I was looking for. They more or less sounded the same.
However, when I put in a tapped coil Emmons pickup, 18k tapped at 9k, by using the 9k tap, there was a very big difference in the sound. Not as loud, but way nicer highs. I liked it much better.
So I would say that different pickups that are designed to sound the same, in fact do more or less, sound the same. But if a pickup is designed to sound different, then it will, or can.
If you want your guitar to sound a lot different, put in a pickup that's wound considerably lighter. This is my personal experience.
I owned an Emmons S12 for a while, sounded great. Pickup was wound to 12k. My Fender~Bud pickups were 11k. Had a very distinctive sound.
Jerry |
|
|
|
Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
|
Posted 12 Dec 2008 7:22 pm
|
|
| Donny is 100% correct. I used to think I had to have a single coil pickup, until I got the same sound with a humbucking by turning the controls on my amp. It really made me more aware of the controls on my amp. Especially the presence control on a Peavey Amp. |
|
|
|
Delvin Morgan
From:
Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2008 6:08 pm
|
|
So you guys are saying all the people who buy cheap Strats and Teles, then change out the pick ups aren't really doing that much? That's really interesting, I was just thinking of putting new pick-ups in my Hwy1 Strat  |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 13 Dec 2008 8:38 pm
|
|
Not exactly on topic, but an interesting article on pickups: ToneQuest Report.
Last edited by Lynn Oliver on 13 Dec 2008 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
|
Posted 13 Dec 2008 8:55 pm
|
|
| A few years ago I went to go see the Hacienda Brothers at a local club. David Berzansky was playing Ricky Davis's old ShoBud. I was blown away by the killer classic ShoBud tone through a Fender tube amp, and even more blown away when I discovered the pickup was a Bill Lawrence 710. I thought for sure they were stock pickups when I walked in the club. I may give humbuckers another try someday. |
|
|
|
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
|
Posted 13 Dec 2008 9:56 pm
|
|
Dave - The 710 is an awesome pickup. I've tried lots of humbuckers over the years and was never satisfied. I've always gone back to the original single-coil pickup that came in my Mullen. I recently purchased a 712 (12-string version) from Jim Palenscar and my search is over. To my ears, the sound is as close to that of a single coil as I could ever ask for.
Lee, from South Texas |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 6:59 am
|
|
I do thank Keith for his comment. 
| Delvin Morgan wrote: |
| So you guys are saying all the people who buy cheap Strats and Teles, then change out the pick ups aren't really doing that much? That's really interesting, I was just thinking of putting new pick-ups in my Hwy1 Strat |
I will repeat (for probably the 100th time).  Pedal steels are NOT Strats and Teles, nor are they Les Pauls, D28's or L-5's. Pedal steels have very little in common with straight guitars, and you really can't compare them, or mods made to each.
Pickups can make a big difference in a straight guitar, but they don't make a big difference in a pedal steel. When you add multiple pickups (as all straight guitars seem to have), tone and volume controls (with switching), and you have a more resonant body and neck, comparisons between the two go out the window. (Especially, when you consider 98% of straight players are "hooked" on some kind of distortion.)
Different animals, really...both the instruments and their players. |
|
|
|
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 7:28 am
|
|
If you want a humbucking pu that sounds like a single coil listen to a Tonealigner. Listen to JD when he speaks. 
Larry Behm |
|
|
|
Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 7:48 am
|
|
| I've been thinking that I would like to try the Tonealigner someday. |
|
|
|
Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 7:58 am
|
|
I had a hum in my single coil, but at the same time I did not want to change the pickup out. so someone said to run the volume pedal though the effects channel on the amp and this will go away, and sure enough it did and I have been playing that way for a while now, if you have a empty effects loop on your amp run your volume pedal though that plug your guitar straight into the amp or pass it though your effects then amp. you will gain more amp power by this move as well
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
|
|
|
Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 8:45 am
|
|
A few months back I put a true tone in my Carson Wells and at first it wasn't balanced on the top 2 strings as in they weren't loud enough...
After messing aroung, lowering it and slanting the TT I got it the way I liked it and it sounds quite a bit different.. The lower strings are much cleaner and clearer, it is much more sensitive as to how hard I pick it, Kind of sounds a little like a lap steel, Harmonics Jump out and are easyer to hit.
I really like the sound of it compared to the E-66.
Altho I never had a big prob with the E-66.
Seems like it has a tele-ish sound now.
This is it.
http://www.myspace.com/metcalfken
Ken
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
|
|
|
Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 10:03 am
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Pickups can make a big difference in a straight guitar, but they don't make a big difference in a pedal steel. |
Ummmm... I replaced the original pickup in my Sho~Bud (rewound by Jerry Wallace @ 17.5k a year before I bought it) with a year-old Truetone @18.5k. Jerry told me over the phone that there shouldn't really be much difference. But, I heard it, and quite obviously so. So did the drummer in my band.
I've never put another pickup in this guitar, but I can't imagine hearing less of a difference than I heard between those two. |
|
|
|
T. C. Furlong
From:
Lake County, Illinois, USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 11:12 am
|
|
I think that the number one thing that produces tone is the picking technique of the player. The guitar, pickup and amplifier will all enhance or detract from that to varying degrees. Depending on the ear and the skill of the player, using a single coil or humbucker might have a great effect or little at all. I know that I tend to adjust technique to allow for differences in steels and pickups. For me, the main difference between the two is that a single coil has more high frequency extension which allows for easier harmonic chimes. Although, a single coil in a hummy environment can all but ruin any harmonic chime playing. String separation and low string clarity are definitely part of the pickup's job. I have humbuckers which do a great job of both.
The main thing that a pickup provides for me is a feeling. If I play a certain steel with a single coil, I get a feeling about the "hollowness" of the midrange. If I play another guitar with a humbucker in it, I get a feeling about the solidness of the midrange. That's not something that tone controls or equalizers can't change
TC |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 11:45 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| Depending on the ear and the skill of the player, using a single coil or humbucker might have a great effect or little at all. I know that I tend to adjust technique to allow for differences in steels and pickups. |
T.C., I'll agree with that! (That's probably why pros can get "their sound" from just about anything.) The amp also has a lot to do with the differences you'll notice. Good amps have a lot of tonal lattitude, while cheaper amps have little. If you don't like the sound from a Fender Champ, you're pretty well stuck. While, if you don't like the tone from a modded N-400, a few knob adjustments will give you far more variance than you might imagine. I can't tell you how many times I've sat down and played someone else's rig (who wasn't happy with their tone), and they say "WOW"!!! HOW do you make it sound like that??? It's really just knowing how to play and how to set the amp.
I will say this: Having a guitar that allows you to change pickups in a few seconds, and knowing how to adjust the amp, will really open your eyes about how much difference there actually is between different pickups. |
|
|
|
John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 12:15 pm
|
|
| I have always felt that single-coil pickups have sweeter, more complex, highs. And you can't adjust an amp to add something that's not in the signal to begin with. But I have nothing against humbuckers, really. We use them exclusively where I work, and they sound very good. Just that my personal preference is for single coils. |
|
|
|
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
|
Posted 14 Dec 2008 2:02 pm
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Pickups can make a big difference in a straight guitar, but they don't make a big difference in a pedal steel. |
I think I would underline the word "big". With my Mullen, they don't make a big difference, but they do sound different. Before installing the BL-712 in my Mullen, I tried several different George L and Bill Lawrence pickups. No amount of twisting dials on either my Evans FET-500 or my Fender Steel King would result in the sound I was used to hearing when using the stock single-coil pickup. All the pickups produced pleasing tones, just not as pleasing as those produced by the single-coil pickup. I'm very happy with the BL-712. I was wanting to get a ToneAligner; however, Bob doesn't offer one that will fit a Mullen 12-string guitar.
Lee |
|
|
|
