Steel and Guitar Amp

Chris Harvey · From: California, USA

I'm a new steel convert (about a year now) from long time guitar player. My question is, I've been asked to play guitar as well on occasion, but my solid state Nashville ain't got the best guitar tone. Is there a tube amp that would have the best of both?? I'm thinking an old twin may do the trick as it's full of headroom, but I'm not sure. Your thoughts?

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

Hi Chris,
bust out the Twin. They sound great for both steel and six-string guitar.

David Doggett · Posted 6 Dec 2008 9:40 am

Chris there have been many threads on this. The problem is that guitar sounds best with a tube amp driven near it's top; but steel amps need lots of power and clean headroom, so they are too loud to get in the sweet spot for guitar. One solution is a big clean amp for steel, and stomp boxes to dirty it up for guitar. But tube amp aficionados want the pure bloom and crunch of an amp, not stomps. Another solution is a big amp for steel with some good breakup at the top, and an attenuator before the speaker to cut the volume for guitar. Some new amps have such attenuators built in.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

You could use a Twin. Have a tech add reverb to both channels. Use the "Normal" channel for steel. Have the tech do the "Tweed" mod to the "Vibrato" channel, and use it for guitar. I like "Vibrate-oh!" for 6-string, and not for steel.

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

the hot tele pickers i play with sound great with a nashville 400...maybe it's your technique...

Bo Legg · Posted 7 Dec 2008 2:24 am

Let me see now by the same token if we play PSG through the amp we use for our just plain old standard guitar and it don’t sound good, it can’t be our technique because unlike guitar players, PSG players are special and we need special amps. Laughing

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

It depends on what your ideal guitar tone is like. All the suggestions work fine if you play squeaky-clean 6-string, but are lousy ideas is you play with a warmer or slightly distorted tone. The EQ and bias settings on a tube amp, for example, are completely different for steel and 6-string (unless, as I mentioned, you play nothing but clean with a lot of top-end); most steelers cut the bass, kickup the treble, and bias the amps on the cold side more maximum headroom (also ofter using lower-gain preamp tubes for the same reason).

But for 6-string, you generally have (with a Twin) the bass around 5, treble 3-4, and bias it on the hot side to warm up the sound. the other issue is that Twin sounds like crap with 6 string at low volume, as it won't drive the speakers hard enough - they don't "bloom" until you are pretty darned loud. For E9 steel you don't need the speakers to open up quite as much, but it destroys your 6-string tone.

With SS amps you have to play clean - distortion (NOT overdrive - a different effect that really only works well with tube amps) always sounds more ratty and ragged with a SS amp as you don't have the even-order harmonics of tubes to warm up the sound. You CAN get a SS amp that will work well for 6-string...but it's designed FOR 6-string and then you'll have a lousy steel amp.

Playing both through one amp is a compromise, and generally speaking (unless you play 6-string clean with a lot of treble, or steel with a warmer, slightly-distorted tone) your tone will suffer on one or the other. Two amps is the way to go.
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Mark Carlisle · From: Springville CA

I would have to agree-if you want the best of both worlds, bite the bullet and carry two amps. It may mean one more trip to the van, however it's worth it IMHO. You can dial in your tone on each separtately, set it and go. BTW my current set up is a 80's Fender Concert (Rivera design)for Tele and fiddle and a Sho-Bud single channel for my steel. Bit of a hassle, but the tonequest beats the extra trip I guess.

Bill Dobkins · From: Rolla Missouri, USA

Chris,You may want to try a Vox Valvetronic 100.
I have a 60 watt that is great but the 100 is stereo.
they are the most versatile amp I've ever used.I suggest you google one and read up on it.
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Tom Buur · From: Denmark

Maybe those people who advice you to get two amps are right. But if you really don't want more than one amp, nothing beats the Twin Reverb. Possibly you should get a 70's Silverface version because this is a bit cleaner than the 66 reissue, more headroom and 100-120 W vs. 85W for the 66 RI.

I use a 66 Twin RI for both. But I don't play at very high volumes, and I like the sound of a clean Strat. Then I use stomp boxes for overdrive/distorsion.

Also as someone suggested you could modify the Twin. If you can do without reverb (using a stomp box for that). Even simpler than a mod is changing the preamp tubes. It is very simple, like changing a light bulb basically. No need for bias adjusment which is thing for power tubes only. Then get some different preamp tubes one that overdrives easily and one that does not. One for each channel. Still I think it will only make a small difference. Twins don't easily overdrive not matter what.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Adding reverb to both channels is an easy mod. Adding the tweed mod isn't too difficult either. I have a 15" speaker in mine. And,,, Teles sound great through 15s.

Brick Spieth · From: San Jose, California, USA

I'm having the same problem in reverse. As a long time tele player, I have a lot of nice guitar gear that absolutely is not good for steel. I just pieced together a decent steel rig from the one clean high power speaker cab I had, a PA amp and a newly purchased steel pre. The difference is remarkable.

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

Bill-
Not trying to divert the topic, but are those decent amps? I'm having the same issue and have been looking at those valvetronics.
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Chris Harvey · From: California, USA

I agree with the fact that you can get a good tone with a Nash 400 as well as the "It's the Indian, Not The Arrow" theory when it comes to playing well through any amp. Heck, I'd tried returning some guitar pics the other day because some guy said I stunk at guitar Smile

I'd much prefer sounding good on steel than guitar, so I'll suffer some tone deficits. I'm going to try a twin with my reverb tank going to the clean channel...the tube tanks add tone for days for 6 string. I'm not much for distortion so I think it'll sound nice.

Thanks again everyone.

Larry Phleger · From: DuBois, PA

Another good choice is a Fender Vibrosonic Reverb. Same basic chassis as the Twin, but with a 15" JBL. They have 2 separate channels with EQ for each.

Tim Bridges · From: Hoover, Alabama, USA

Ken Fox modded my Twin. Reverb is active on both channels. Channel 1 is biased for steel. Channel 2 is biased for Tele. The only limiting factor is shared Master Volume. Also, as indicated earlier, stomp boxes mandatory for any distortion/breakup. I love the Twin, but a NV 112 and a Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket are easier to transport.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I double on steel and 6-string a lot these days, and find that my Fender Twin Reissue Custom 15" does the job great. I had tech problems with the first one I received, but the replacement is solid.

I use the second (reverb) channel for steel, and run the 6-string through the first channel with a bit of delay and a Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster to break up the amp a bit on a lower volume. I turn the PU Booster on 10, and set the amp accordingly (usually under 3).

The same configuration works with my '71 SF Twin as well, in case my Custom 15" is in another venue for a double gig.
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Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

I gave up and take 2 amps, the NV112 and a SF Deluxe. If I had to pick one, I'd use the 112, my deluxe is not set up for clean. The NV112 is not too bad, and a tubescreamer works very well with it and my Nashville Tele. But 2 amps works so much better. JP
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I have two amps that I use for double duty at times. Both have separate EQ's and channels so you can set each instrument up as you like it.

The first is an old MusicMan HD-212 One Fifty which is pretty much like a Twin except it has a SS preamp. I plug the Tele in the normal channel and the steel in that first channel that no one ever uses. The effects I use on steel are a Boss Digital Delay and a Goodrich Matchbox. The amp also has an onboard phase shifter for the guitar which is great for nailing that Waylon Jennings tone.......

The second double duty amp is a Peavey Stereo Chorus 400 with a 2-12 speaker configuration. It also has two totally separate channels but a good point is that the chorus and reverb work on both channels so that's really a plus.....

That said though, my favorite rig at the moment is my old Randall Steelman 500 for steel and a Peavey Classic 30 all tube amp for guitar. What's nice is the Randall has rollers on it and I just set the Peavey on top of it to roll it right into a club or put both together on a hand truck so there's no weight problem. I was amazed at how good the Peavey sounded last Sunday night. We did a benefit at a large club filled with people and I just played guitar on the Peavey unmiked and it covered the place very well, I didn't expect it to.......JH in Va.
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Joseph Carlson · From: Grass Valley, California, USA

Not sure where you are, but I saw this on the Sacramento Craigslist.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/msg/947940348.html
Seems like it was intended for doubling.

Depending on the gig, I either bring both my Nashville 112 and my Vibrolux, or suffer through with lousy guitar tone and run both through the Nashville.

The only guitar player I've ever heard with good tone through a solid state steel amp was Redd Volkaert playing through Joe Goldmark's Webb with the Twangbangers.

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

I run my guitars and steel through a tube amp with an attenuator. You can get anything from squeeky clean to total tube saturation independent of volume level. Since the volume control is post power tubes, it doesnt sound phony like a distortion pedal would. I've had good luck with the THD hot plate.
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