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Topic: Pedal steel setup for B9? |
Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 4:37 pm |
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I've been daydreaming a bit about a pedal steel setup with a B9 tuning- all the same changes/intervals as an E9 guitar, just tuned a fifth down. Anyone here ever done that? Maybe there are some string tension issues?
Thanks! Henry |
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Glenn Taylor
From:
Denver, CO, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:16 pm
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and why not?
I've been playing D9 for years; it took me a while to get used to different positions for chords, but I prefer the sound.
B9 should be more of a baritone sound. Thicker strings--you can estimate gauges by looking at what size string for what pitch is used on the E9.
I would guess .060" would be good for the 10th string--I play a 12-string and lower the 12th to B with a .060"
best of luck!!
www.glenntaylormusic.com
www.moyopedalsteelguitars.com |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 10:20 am
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Henry, I have just about as close to what you're suggesting as you can get. I have sort of an extended E9/6 you might say. It's basically an Extended E9 but I tune my 2nd and 9th strings to C#.
When my E's are lowered, the 9th string C# functions the same as the 7th string F# in an E9 tuning, ie. the II of the scale. Also the 2nd string C# is the same as the F# or 1st string of the E9 tuning.
My first pedal raises my 7th string F# to G# which gives you the same function of the A pedal on E9...
When you let off of the "E" lower lever it's the same move as the B pedal.
Letting off of your E lever and applying your A pedal gives you the same moves as your C pedal in E9.
My verticle KL lowers my 5th string B to A# (Bb) the same move as lowering your 4th string E on E9. I also lower the 10th string B on the bottom side of another lever.....
I use these changes in these ways quite a bit....JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 5:08 pm
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Isn't that something close to Sneaky Pete's B6 tuning? B6 with E9 AB pedal changes but no C# on top. Ive been thinking about that too. Something to do with my S10 ZB.
dz |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 6:53 pm
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Henry, I think tuning a 10-string to B9 would work well. Compared to a 12-string extended E9 it would look like this:
| Tab: |
1 F#
2 D# C 1
3 G# A# 2
4 E D# 3
5 B B 4
6 G# F# 5
7 F# D# 6
8 E C# 7
9 D B 8
10 B A 9
11 G# F# 10
12 E |
So you can see that the string gauges would be within the range that works okay for Ext. E9. For the proper gauges you would take your cues from Ext. E9. So your Bs would be the same as the Bs of Ext. E9. The others fall in between the strings of Ext. E9, so just choose a gauge in between.
An advantage to using B9 as opposed to say C9 would be that you would be on a lot of familiar frets for an E9 player. For example, your 3rd fret would be D, so playing in D would be just like playing in G on E9. And your 8th fret would be G. So playing in G would be like playing in C on E9. Playing in A would be like playing in D. Playing in E would be like playing in A, etc. This is also why playing a B6 uni is easier for an E9 player than a C6 tuning. You end up on a lot of familiar frets.
I think this is a cool idea. I would call this a tenor pedal steel. You would be playing down in C6/B6 range, but would have the familiar E9 grips and scales. But I'm not sure how useful it would be. The country pedal steel sound is pretty much wedded to that high string sound. On my E9/B6 uni, I hardly ever use the low strings for playing country. It just doesn't sound right. For blues, rock and jazz, I use the low strings for rhythm, especially power chords, and those would be lacking on a 10-string B9, just as they are lacking on 10-string E9. But if you like to play western swing on E9, where with the pedals down it is A6, then a 10-string B9 would work pretty good. With the pedals down it would be E6. |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 12:52 am
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| Do you suppose it could be done by just switching gauges and tuning up the guitar, or would radical adjustment need to be done? |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 6:56 am
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Mr. Nagle,
Yeah, string tension would give you problems. Heavier gauges means you'll need longer throws on your pedals and levers.
You crazy, man!
CAP'N
_________________
http://www.drewhoward.com |
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Parr Bryan
From:
Nacogdoches,Texas
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 8:14 am
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I did something like that years ago. I was not use to playing at frets 15-24 when I wanted the E9
"kroger" sounds, it was hard for me and the larger diameter strings don't sound like regular E9 ones.
Try playing stuff in frets 15-24 to see if you want to do that most of the time. If you're young just go to a 12 string. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 10:03 am
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My two cents....
To maintain the clarity of the strings with a steel tuned to B9, it would probably be best to have a longer scale length, even longer than the Sierra keyless (25 1/2") |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 10:21 am
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| Richard is absolutely right. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 11:29 am
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You don't need a longer scale length - you just increase the string gages.
As Dave Zirbelnoted, it'd be close in a way to Sneaky's B6, which is what I play. On a Fender 400 long scale, we (Sneaky -RIP - and the other guys who play it - I know of at least a dozen or so of us) use heavier gage strings than E9. If you think in terms of C6-type gages it'll get you there, and there are charts by both Fender and Ernie Ball that list notes and recommended string gages (regardless of scale - on 6-string, for example, players will use the same gages on a Strat or a Les Paul...one with a 25.5" scale, the other 24 3/4"..or a Fender Jaguar at 24").
I play a twisted version of the B6 on my GFI Ultra, and with its 23" scale (I think) I simply use the recommended gages +1 thousandth, and it's clear and not sloppy at all.
The great thing for me, as mainly a 6-string player and with a different, primarily single-string style on steel, is that I'm playing right in the 6-string range. Had I not bailed out on E9 as I just could not find what I was "hearing" (and the first time I used B6 I could play almost on autopilot) I was going to tune it down to B9 as well. The high, whining steel just isn't my sound, and dropped down to "B" the instrument really has "guts".
All you need to do is change gages and retune your pulls. It's not rocket science.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 11:58 am
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| I guess I could start by tuning down to D9 and seeing how I like that. Glenn, do you use heavier gauges for that? Likely, I suppose. |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 1:32 pm
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| I should've just got a 12 string. |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 7 Dec 2008 9:39 am
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Sire Nagle, you are now a certified foamer 
Yes, a 12 is in your future. I've had a couple and they're the bomb. But everyone wants to hear the high strings, y'now, the crying (John Hughey), the tears falling (plays chromatic strings).
Hope you and yourn are well.
CAP'N |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 7 Dec 2008 11:31 am
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Hey Drew. At least I'm in good company, I suppose.
I had a 12 string awhile back too. It was sweet and I don't quite know why I didn't stick with that format.
It'd be kind of cool to have a double neck E9/B9 guitar. I guess the knees would have to be on some kind of crossover system. |
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Henry Nagle
From:
Santa Rosa, California
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Posted 7 Dec 2008 11:32 am
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Jerry! Would you mind listing the open notes of your tuning?
Thanks... |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 8 Dec 2008 9:56 am
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Henry, the open notes of my tuning are:
high to low F# C# G# E B G# F# E C# B G# E
I also have the following changes...
LKL raises string 2 C# to D# & lowers string 10 B to A# (Bb)
LKV lowers string 5 B to A# (Bb)
LKR raises strings 2 and 9 C# to D
RKL raises strings 4 & 8 E to F
RKR lowers strings 4 & 7 E to D# (Eb)
P1..raises string 7 F# to G# and lowers 12 E to C#
P2..standard A pedal raising 5 & 10 B to C#
P3..standard B pedal raising 3,6, & ll G# to A
P4..raises string 9 C# to D and lowers string 12 E to D.
P5..raises string 5 B to C# and string 6 G# to A# (Bb)
P6..lowers string 7 F# to F and raises string 12 E to F
P7..lowers string 3 G# to G and raises string 7 F# to G
P7..."Mooney" pedal which raises string 4 E to F#
......................JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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