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Topic: Changes to F# (String 7 on E9th Neck) |
Michael McNeill
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 4:37 am |
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Hey,
I really enjoy checking out pictures of the different brands and configurations of the Pedal Steels posted on the FORUM. It is like looking at art for me. There so many beautiful axes out there. I want them ALL!
Once in a while I see a rig that has a pull rod hooked up to the 7th string (F# on the E9th neck). It is usually a raise. 99% of the steels I see have nothing going on with string 7 at all. It is so unusual to see this, I am wondering if one of you guys can tell me what putting a raise (or drop) on the F# will do, as far as playing goes.
Have a great day |
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Zeke Cory
From:
Hinsdale, New York USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 6:20 am My 7th string
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| Michael. My Shobud Super Pro, my Pro II Custom, and my LDG are tuned to chromatic D9th, just 2 frets beneath the standard. Pedals are exactly the same as normal. I run a wound on my 6th string. It will not lower a full step. When I got them, they all had the 7th string hooked up for 1/2 tone raise. (E to F in my case). I think that's a Shobud standard copedant pull. I wanted to drop the 6th string a whole tone, so I simply raised the 7th a full tone from E to F#(F# to G# for you)on this same knee lever. I now have that change one string down from the 6th string. It works great. I never did use the 7th string 1/2 step raise that much so it is not missed. Guess I am kind of an experimenter. I am sure you will get alot of help here with this question from our forum brothers. Best of luck to you and Happy Holidays. Zeke |
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Ron Wright
From:
Modesto,CA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:14 am
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I have my 7th string raised on RKR gives me a 7th with AB and RKR together
_________________
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boss DD3,DS-1,TU-2,PS-2,Behringer rotary rm600
Goodrich 120,BoBro,RV2,Hilton Vp, Steeldriver3 |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:19 am
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| just like Ron does too here : F# to G on string 7 |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:24 am
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I have my first pedal raising the 7th string F# to G# as does b0b. That's been Tom Brumley's first pedal for many years. I think he and b0b also raise their 10th string B to C# on theirs but I lower my 12th string E to C# on mine along with the 7th string raise so when I have my E to F knee lever engaged, it gives me a root on the bottom. I also have another foot pedal which lowers my 7th string F# to F and raises my 12th string E to F. When my E's are lowered and I'm playing out of a B6th mode it gives me the II7 chord.........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:31 am
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I raise my 7th string from F# to G.
It gives me a very nice 7th tone with A & B pedals down. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 8:47 am
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Ditto on the 7th with the AB pedals. I have the raise to G on LKV. If you are playing in a minor key with the A pedal, it is very simple to go from the Im to a turnaround V7 by dropping down one fret and hitting the AB pedals and LKV.
Also, in the A pedal minor position, raising the 7th string a half-step gives a b5, which is very useful in minor blues and jazz. You also get the same b5 in the A pedal/F lever position.
On LKV I have a feel stop at G and can also take it all the way up to G# for a unison with string 6. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 10:11 am
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you are missing alot of great stuff by not raising that 7th string f# to a G lots of good 7th stuff there and alot of riffs as well. you can do a darn good riff for songs like truck driving man. and alot of the hag stuff. now you could get that same 7th thing going on with the 6th lowered as well but you would have to have a split on your guitar that most do.explore and you will find alot of great things you can do with the f# to g move
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 11:14 am 7th String Raise
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| Wouldn't leave home without it. Mine is on my LKR 1st and 7th string, half tone raise. Very useful in my opinion. Here is one example I posted in Beginners Notes. http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=141312 There are several others posted. DS |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 12:13 pm
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I never used the #7 F# to G change in all my years of playing, although Raising #1 & #7 has become somewhat of a standard change for the RKL. My RKL Raises #1 - F# to G#, #2 - D# to E and Lowers #6 - G# to F#. So, since I have an extra LKL on my E9, I recently decided what to do with it and I now have 6 standard KL-changes on my E9 as follows:
1.[LKL1] = Raise #1 & #7 (½-tone) F# to G
2.[LKL2] = Raise #4 & #8 (½-tone) E to F
3.[LKV] = Lower #5 & #10 (½-tone) B to Bb
4.[LKR] = Lower #4 & #8 (½-tone) E to Eb
5.[RKL] = Raise #1 (1-tone) F# to G#
Raise #2 (½-tone) D# to E
Lower #6 (1-tone) G# to F#
6.[RKR] = Lower #2 (½-1-tone) D# to D/C#
Lower #9 (½-tone) D to C#
So, I figure I've got the ‘standards’ pretty well covered w/o cornfusing myself!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 1:11 pm
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I raise both 1 & 7 to G on my LKV.
On my second LKL, I raise 1 to G#, 2 to E, and 7 to G# |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 1:17 pm
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| i raise it to G with a knee and lower it to F with another knee with my secret copedant for secret licks. |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 1:47 pm
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Although I don't have the half tone change at the moment, I'm thinking of putting it on pedal 7 of my S-12 because when you have your E's lowered and playing out of the B6th mode it gives you a sharp five (augmented) chord which is very useful in the transition from a I to a IV. Also I'll be able to use it with my right foot along with my A&B pedals because my pedal 8 is activated with the right foot as it just raises my 4th string a whole tone for "Mooney" stuff.........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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David Hartley
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 7:47 pm
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| On RKL, I raise 1 a whole step, 2 a half step, and lower 6 a whole step. With the 4th pedal lowering 5&10, I've got the Franklin change with RKL. I still have the b7 with my A&B pedals, and with no pedals, the release resolves back to a major chord. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 8:23 pm
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Several months ago, I got the idea to add #8 Raise (1-tone) E to F# on the C-Pedal. It works very well with my Emmons Set-up and doesn't interfer with anything that I normally play. It's used more or less as an effect when using (B)&(C)-Pedals together while picking strs. #5, #6 and #8, while starting 2-frets above the 1-chord.
~~~E9~~~P1~~~P2~~~P3~~
1. F#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2. D#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3. G#~~~~~~~~~A~~~~~~~
4. E~~~~~~~~~~~~~~F#~~
5.(B)~~~~~~~~~~~~(C#)~
6.(G#)~~~~~~~(A)~~~~~~
7. F#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8.(E)~~~~~~~~~~~~(F#)~
9. D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10.B~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW: John Hughey changed some gauges for his wound-strings. He told me it had a better feel for him!
#7.F# = .024w
#8.E = .028w
#9.D = .034w
#10 B = .038w
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster
Last edited by John Bechtel on 5 Dec 2008 12:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 11:50 pm
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On my Emmons Push/Pull D-10...RKL, raises 1 a whole step, 2 a half step, and lowers 6 a half step.
This same lever also lowers my 3rd string on my C6 neck (C to B)
At the present time, I like the 6th string lowering to G better than lowering to F#. It gives me another minor chord and I can relate to licks (on strings 4 and 6) that I play (Strings 1 and 3) on a 6 string guitar. Plus, the same licks can also be played with strings 6 and 8
My Stage One (by Zum) has my RKL raising both the 1st and 7th strings F# to G. Jeff Newman used that same knee change years ago. |
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Kyle Everson
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 12:07 am
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| If you raise your 7th string a whole tone, you get the dominant 7 (G) and major 7 (G#) in the pedals down position. In the no pedals position, this would equate to the minor 3rd and the major 3rd, respectively. You can install a half-stop or just "half-pedal" it for the G note. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 12:09 am
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Danny; If you combine your RKL with the (B)-Pedal, you'll automatically have your (G)-note for a minor chord! Of course, you'll need a split/tuner of some sort for perfect-pitch!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 12:36 am
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John, This guitar is a push/pull. The raises take priority. I am mainly using it for licks.... I like having that F# note next to the G note too. Nice chords. I'm sure I could rig up a half stop somehow.
BTW, When it lowered to F#, making those 5 chords with LKR and RKL was a "Ball Cruncher" 
I may go back to the G# to F#... but right now I like this setup a lot. 
Kyle, I like your idea too. In fact, before I had it rebuilt, I had that F# to G# change... Never thought I'd miss it. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 2:44 am
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| I've had the 7th string raise, F# to G ever since I got my Franklin (new) in 1981. It is on my RKR which also lowers the 2nd string and also lowers the 9th string (and also lowers the 2nd string on the C6th neck). |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 3:44 am
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On my first PedalSteel I started with str 1 & 7 F# to G
It changes the 6th voicing (A+Bpedals) to a Dom7
The F# - G also give you the minor voicing on strings 8 7 5 at the same fret as Major voicing, strings 8 6 5
I found the change very useful for plaing both blues/country. Suits both scales and chords well. If you like playing in minor keys it will also be very useful when playing scales.
My 2nd PedalSteel has 1 & 7 F# - G#
There are lots of uses for this change also, but it suits country better than blues.
In order to explain it easy play strings 8 7 5 with your E's lowered to Eb at the 5th fret (Compare with open strings 6 5 4). Chord = E
Releasing E-Eb lever(at 5th fret) does the same as
pressing B pedal (open strings)
Adding F# - G# (at 5th fret) does the same as pressing A pedal(open strings)
You do have access to other different notes in each of the two positions, but this is the easy explanation.
On my S12extE9 I have the F# - G# on RKR
inn addition I have a P4 pedal that lowers string 1 & 7 F# - F. It is not so common change I think.
There are at least two other ways to get the same voicing other places but sometimes it sounds better just to change that single note without having to move the bar to another fret.
Easy version is that 7string F#-F together with E's-Eb give the same voicing as A+B+E's-Eb(two frets up)
I think you should try both F#-G and F#-G# and see which one suits your playing style best.
Bengt Erlandsen |
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Michael McNeill
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 4:22 am F# to G change on String 7
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Hey,
Many thanks to you all. I am humbled by all the responses I have received.
I have the day off today. I know exactly how I am going to spend my time. I believe there is an open Bell Crank fitting on my Carter D-10. I'll borrow a rod from one of the knee levers on the C6 that I haven't figured out yet, and hook up this 1/2 step raise on STRING 7.
Thanks again, this is great. I hope I can return the favor sometime.
Merry Christmas, |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 8:47 am
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| I have a half/whole step lower on string 7 F#, along with 3 other pulls and I use it a lot. |
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