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Topic: Fourth string return problem |
Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 3:30 am |
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When I lower the Es on my derby SD 10 the fourth string doesn't return all the way sometimes. The problem is very slight--most people probably wouldn't even notice. So I have to nudge the D lever (raise) to get it back in tune.
I tightened the spring once and it seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now it's back. I don't know if I should keep cranking that spring. Could it be lube between the fingers--if so what's the best stuff?
Derby SD-10, NV 112, TrueTone, Goodrich, George-L |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 10:23 am
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try backing off all the nylon tuners thats working that string to the point where you know its not against the changer then start over again with the tuning process. sometimes as strings wear out people seem to crank the tuners in to far with out knowing it and at some point this happens. not saying thats a sure fix but I would start there anyways that will clear that partof the trouble shooting anyways and thats something that you can do. also sometimes a pedal adjustment may have caused it if you have adjusted your pedals then noticed the problem then it may be there. but I would try the tuners first then go from there.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 10:30 am
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I would recommend "TRI-FLOW". Very good lube, and it stays put.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Charlie Moore
From:
Deville, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 11:25 am string return
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Ray,also ck.the 4th string make sure it is straight from changer to hole in tuning key,sometimes you can wind the string up and it pulls crooked on the roller nutand causes the roller to not roll free..hope that helps..
Charlie.... |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2008 8:38 pm
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I'm with Joseph.
You may need a little slack in your pull rod so when your not engaging the changer the tuning end doesn't touch or pull the changer. If this is the problem, first back the nylon tuning nut off so it's only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way on the end of the pull rod. I've found if my nylon tuners are on too tight, they are difficult to turn.
Then you'll need to take the pull rod loose at the cross shaft and pull it until it just touches at the changer, then back it out at the cross shaft 1/16 of an inch or so and tighten back up at the cross shaft. Retune the change.
I had a change that kept returning sharp and that was the problem...your mileage may vary, as they say... |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 9:00 am Re: Fourth string return problem
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| Ray McCarthy wrote: |
I tightened the spring once and it seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now it's back. I don't know if I should keep cranking that spring. |
All these suggestions are good, but maybe your simple idea is best: just tighten it up. Springs do need to be adjusted now and then.
If the problem is friction, don't forget that friction can come from the pull rods and knee lever brackets as well as from inside the changer. Try lowering it manually (push on the lower bar at the right end of the guitar) instead of with the knee lever, and check to see if it snaps back up to pitch when you release. If it does, then your spring is tight enough and you should look in the pulling assembly for friction. |
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Leri Schiller
From:
Belton, Texas
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Posted 5 Dec 2008 11:39 pm Compensators
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| Does your Derby have a compensator on the fourth string? If so, It may need readjusting. Just a thought. |
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Rodney Barnett
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 3:12 am
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| I had that problem once, different guitar but it turned out to be the cross shaft was sticking. I discovered that after trying all kinds of other things that didn't work. |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 3:50 am
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| Leri--What's a "compensator"? (I'm still fairly illiterate when it comes to the mechanics of the PSG) |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 6:18 am
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Ray, My Derby does the same thing. This seems to be a problem with the Derby. Take it outside,take the string off,and the pull rod, get some really good cleaner and clean the changer while working it with your finger until you get rid off all the black gunk. Do this top and bottom, then use a good oil on it.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Billy Knowles
From:
Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 8:25 am 4th
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Ray
Is it coming back flat or sharp?
Thanks
Billy |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 2:26 pm
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| Billy, It comes back flat a few cents. I have to raise it w/the D lever to get it back. |
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Leri Schiller
From:
Belton, Texas
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 6 Dec 2008 7:34 pm
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Ray
if it was my guitar heres what I would do, first I would take the third pedal rod lose and just let it hang, tune the guita press the F level and see if it comes back true, if it does then you know the problem is at the 3rd pedal rod adjustment, if it dont hook the rod back up take the nylon tuner off the one that raises the E's, tune the guitar push the third pedal see if it comes back true if it does then you know the trouble is in the E raise level if it dont come back, take the lower nylon tuner off that lowers the string press C pedal and see if it comes back true, if it does then of course the trouble would be with the lower side of things, if it dont take all nylon tuners off, tune the string reach in and press the finger with a pen or what ever will allow you to do it press it a little and see if it comes back true, if it dont then you have a changer sticking or a spring not working it is very rare to find a spring not doing its job. so I would at that time take the string off check the roller to make sure it spins.place a new string on it and before placing any of the tuners back on set your tuner up on the tuned string and press pedals a & b and see if it makes a change that could be a sticking changer if it does, of couse we all know it changes pitch a little due to cabinet drop so that might be a hard one to try. one of these test will show you where the trouble is
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Bill Pillmore
From:
Asheville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2009 9:43 am 4th string return
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I have been following this thread and others and I am having the same problem on my all pull GFI.
I tried what Joseph Barcus suggested. It seems that the levers and the pedals work totally independent of each other. With the knees disconnected the pedal works fine. With the pedal disconnected the lever works fine. It seems though that they both have a different reference to E when at rest. I have no idea which one is the correct one. 
I put some lube on the changer but it doesn't seem to help either.
_________________
Bill
mail@billpillmore.com
GFI S-10 keyless - not 4 sale! |
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Bill Pillmore
From:
Asheville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2009 11:52 am 6th string
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Because I have a split tune lower on the knee of the 6th and two raises on the pedals I have the same problem here only worse. Here because I use the pedals more I have to use the return from the pedal raise to be the G# I tune too. After uising the knee it returns sharp enough that I have to pop the pedal to make sure it's back in tune.
I can't see and restriction any where and put a drop of lube on the changer.
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Bill
mail@billpillmore.com
GFI S-10 keyless - not 4 sale! |
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Bill Pillmore
From:
Asheville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2009 7:13 pm Solved
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Well after reading a lot of posts I sovedl my problems. The 6th string needed a little more sring tension and the 4 string the problem was at the nut bar (on the GFI keyless it's a bar not rollers). Tapping on the non speaking length of the string brought it back so that got some lube. Never thought to lube there.
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Bill
mail@billpillmore.com
GFI S-10 keyless - not 4 sale! |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2009 7:15 am
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| Thanks for all the advice from everyone, but I think it was just lube. I shot Tri-Flo down through the changer (upside down) and changed the strings, and it seems to be OK now. We'll see how it goes. |
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