Tele experts - does the top (pickup) plate matter?

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

After listening some more to Brad Paisley's new (mostly) instrumental CD, I've decided to take the plunge, forgo my usual insistence on a bridge humbucker and build a Warmoth Tele - but I want a two-point, modern Strat-type whammy bar. I want it to sound like a steely Tele pickup, yes I know the springs will make it sproingier overall.... On the Telecaster bridge pickups, is it just the bottom plate that makes that pickup sound that way, or does the large Tele bridge plate actually electronically do something? People love to speculate that "everything's interactive" etc. but please post if you know....

In looking at the specs, I can't see that the bridge plate should affect the electronic signal into the pickup, but it is grounded, right? So does the placement and size of the huge steel bridge plate relative to the strings affect anything?

Pete Woronowski · From: Saskatchewan, Canada

David, the tele plate has a strong effect on the mid-range of the gtr as well as sustain.
I tried the tele setup with a strat bridge years ago and at best it didn't come close to cutting it.
Take Care, Pete
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Far be it from me to call myself an "expert". "True knowledge" is fleeting, so I can only tell you about my experiences. In my opinion, all of this stuff can indeed change the simple strummed sound of a Tele. Of course, I view a Tele as an instrument that must be played - they don't play themselves at all - you have to whip them into submission. But the only way you will truly "know" is to see what works for you.

I have taken the same Tele and put on just a different (smaller) bridge plate and noticed the difference immediately. I've taken just the metal-bottom pickup out and put in various types of non-metal-bottom pickups (like an Am. Std) pickup and noticed the difference immediately. Different bridge saddles can make a noticeable difference. I think a tremelo can make a very noticeable difference. I had a MIJ CAR '62 Tele Custom reissue with an American Std. Strat bridge/tremelo system. It was still cool and sounded like a Tele, but sounded different than it did before the change. I sold it to Larry Campbell when he was in town playing with Dylan 8-10 years back - he seemed to really like it at the time.

I think it is an interactive system. These things affect the magnetic field around the pickup and/or the mechanical structure for the vibrating strings. But that's purely academic - my decisions on this were made by experiment, not theory.

This is not to say that there is anything "wrong" with changing things from the standard Tele configuration. I wouldn't even say that I can't get "my tone" with some of these changes. Still - I think Leo got it right in the first place. But I like a lot of clank on a Tele. This Mexican-made Palo Escrito Tele I just picked up has it in the clank department - it's totally traditional and outclanks any Am Std type modern design I've ever touched. But YMMV. If you want a trem with a smaller bridge plate, well that's what you want.

Purely my opinions.

Brick Spieth · From: San Jose, California, USA

I've built at least a dozen parts teles, and played a bunch more and IMHO, you will not get a true tele bridge PU sound with any kind of trem. Not to say you won't like it, but it will be an expensive experiment. There is a reason there aren't more of them around.
The interaction of the bridge and the PU, and one might go so far as to say a real vintage three barrel bridge, is integral to the great tele bridge PU sound. You should ask this same question on the TDPRI website. Everything that can be done has been done to a tele over there.
Now a Bigsby is a whole other issue, as that keeps more of the tele hardware intact. Still not the same as a classic tele bridge. I've had strats with tele bridge PUs, and the hard tail was very close to tele, the trem strat not so much.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

What Brick said.

I've ben a Tele guy for decades, and probably did more work on Teles and Strats than everything else combined when I was running my part-time tech shop. I've experimented with different bridges, pickups with and without bottom plates, pickups at straight and even reverse-angles...there's a unique, symbiotic relationship between the bridge pickup angle, pickup plate, and bridge plate (plus saddles have quite a bit to do with it as well). That's one reason Thinlines have different sound than "normal" Teles - the bridge. And I have yet to find a trem system that completely captures the Tele tone (the Bigsby is best, but still misses the mark).

Oddly, you can got with a hot bridge pickup, a mini 'bucker that fits a stock bridge, a stacked one...and they will all still get close to the stock Tele tone, albeit with their own quirks (I have the all-time "quirk" system still based on stock bridges; Red Rhodes' Velvet Hammer bridge pickup, Strat neck pickup and the essential wiring harness - It's the 70's Clarence White toneyou can't get any other way.)

But yes - the bridge plate is essential, and type of plate makes a difference as well (plated brass vs plated steel).
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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

David, there was for a short time a Fender Jerry Donahue model Stratocaster. He was normally a Tele man but this particular Strat had a bridge plate like a Tele but most of it was hidden under the pickguard. I really believe that the plate contributes a lot to the sound and I think Fender believes it too or they wouldn't have put one on that Strat.........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Scott Swartz · From: St. Louis, MO

The bridge plate on a tele matters due to magnetic field and eddy current effects on the pickup, this is a well known phenomenon.

Covers on a humbucker do the same thing, the reason they use nickel silver is because of low eddy currents. Covers made from brass make for a dark pickup because of high eddy currents.

These effects occur on steel guitars also. For instance, one famous steel has a thick aluminum plate that the pickup mounts to.

The same plate machined from nylon will change the tone.
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Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
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ajm · From: Los Angeles

I can't argue with any of the posts above, since I have never owned a Tele and their posts also make sense.

However, see if you can find a Tom Anderson Tele and try it out. He is supposed to make a really good sounding "Tele", yet his guitars do not have a bridge plate.

Jerry Erickson · From: Atlanta,IL 61723

Lindy Fralin offers a plate for the bridge pickup of a Strat on his website. i think it's $10 for the plate. You could try that and see if it gets you close enough.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

The tele bridge system is part of the tele sound. Also, I built a Warmouth tele years ago. It's a good project and you can personalize the instrument. However, you really roll the dice doing this and I can't help but being a bit negative as you have to purchase all the parts, finish the neck and body and put it together and play it to find out that you may not like it. This was my experience. Also, the after market value of the guitar is questionable. YMMV...

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

A: I've built a dozen or so Warmoths, and the building part of it is part of the pleasure, too - there comes a point in the middle of every one where I'm thinking (?) - (!) but I always get over it.

B: So, blow off the whammy - to make a "tele" kind of noise I need:
1) a steel bridge plate like this -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270302420243
the "50's" ones say Pat Pend, big deal. I'll root around, but the Fender part actually looks pretty good.
(Edit - is the Callaham worth it? They blurb it as being thicker - .075" instead of Fender's .050" - but if the Fender bridge is what made Fender noises, well, then.... seems like the electrical aspect would count here?)

2) A weakish Tele pickup (Lawrence? Seymour Duncan? I don't need a $$$ Lollar (Barden - $160!), but the Fralin is only $80... it HAS to be potted, sorry freaks.

3) A bottom plate like this -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270239121156

4) Three brass barrels - these have to be angled/intonated, sorry again freaks but the damn pedal steel has ruined my taste for playing out of tune & I stopped drinking years ago so it ain't coming back. Crying or Very sad

5) Swamp ash or alder? Heh heh, this seems to provoke a sh#tstorm - it does appear that a lightweight piece of alder is lighter than a heavy piece of ash, and a lightweight piece of swamp ash is lighter than a heavy piece of alder. So maybe only weight is most important - 3 lbs? 4 lbs? 3.75923371 lbs?

6) If I do all this crap for the bridge, can I make it a purple-sparkle flying V shape? I'm going single-PU Esquire, BTW - it'll be a one-trick pony, but oh what a trick. Mr. Green

I don't care if it looks authentic, braided wiring and all that hoo-ha, but I need to make that noise.

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I've heard that even tho the end plate is screwed down tight, the amped sounds still cause it to vibrate a teeny bit, which translates to the PU and is a big part of the pie in the Tele's 'clack'.

Mitch Adelman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

These are excellent and do make a difference in sound!

http://www.glendaleguitars.com/bridgeplates.htm

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I'd say forget the "whammy bar". If you feel you need one, then you're probably not a good enough player to worry about the intricasies of the sound...either with, or without one.

As Jim says..."And I have yet to find a trem system that completely captures the Tele tone (the Bigsby is best, but still misses the mark").

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYqN-3JEe1Y

Mr. Green

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

ajm · From: Los Angeles

I don't want this thread to veer off topic, so I'll just say thank you to David and Dave for addressing the "not being good enough to play without a whammy bar" comment.

Now back to the Tele bridge and bridge plate controversy................

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

At one point years ago I was taking a Tele and a Les Paul to the gig every night. Since I mainly used the neck pickup on the LP and the bridge pickup on the Tele, I thought about combining them on one guitar. I liked the way the 'paul played better so I took it to a guitar shop and had a Tele lead pickup installed in the thing. It cost me a fair amount of money as the guy made an adapter piece to fit it in the bridge humbucker slot and it worked fine except it didn't sound that much like a Tele. It was more like a P-90 equipped Les Paul except a little weaker and maybe just a shade brighter. Anyway, it didn't stay in the guitar very long. I'm convinced that the whole thing contributes to the sound!...JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Yeah, I agree Jerry. Besides the differences of wood, construction technique, pickups, and other hardware, there is also the matter of the difference between the 24.75" scale length of the Les Paul vs. the 25.5" scale length of the Tele, which I think contributes a lot.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Well I'm going to go full-tilt Tele bridge, no whammy. The only three questions I have now are:

1) Between the Callaham, Glendale and "real" Fender bridgeplate, I know it'll be chromed steel & not brass or stainless. The Callaham is thicker, .075" vs .050", and it seems like that might be a liability in the attempt to get "classic" - eddy currents etc. Mebbe a thicker bridge plate does need an overwound pickup, to sound "normal" like a standard pickup with a thinner plate...(?) oh the agony of thought. Smile

Three (slanted) brass bridge pieces are a given, but I do like that little picking cutaway the custom guys do. (Course I could SAW off a Fender, they're only 14 bucks....)

2) Seymour Duncan SBL1-B Broadcaster pickup vs. Lindy Fralin (flat magnet) Broadcaster pickup. I will be using a Warmoth compound radius boatneck (no debate Smile

); it's radiused from 10" to 16" so it's virtual flat at the pickup end, 19-something inches. I have to build and play the thing for a few years to see if I deserve some Lollar custom woo-woo pickup, every piece of wood is different... and I ain't a cowboy - yet.

3) The eternal & heated swamp ash vs. alder debate. I know one is not "better", it seems as though weight is maybe most important and I'll just trust Warmoth or USA Custom on using decent wood - I know every piece is different, so it's never going to be "just like" so-and so. As long as I get get all the bridge-ducks in a row, I 'll work from there. Inside of a dog it's too soggy to pick. Mr. Green

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

David,

I built the guitar below last week. I had the neck, a nice birdseye Fender knock off but I had a hard time finding a body that wasn't neck-thru. I bought a complete guitar from Rondo Music for $130 to get the body. I wanted to keep the cost down. It is basswood with a burl ash bound top. The bigsby B5 came with the Tele pickup plate. All I had to do was locate and drill the holes for the bridge posts, not a big deal. She is sporting American Fender Vintage noiseless PUs wired '50s style with new CTS pots. I have them (PUs) in other Teles and like them a lot. The guitar has plenty of twang and bite but it not quite as bright as my original '71, Am. Deluxe or '90s thinline. It does sound like a tele & I am well pleased. The wang bar works well with a little nut sauce on the 'ole nut.

Best of luck in your project,

Rich

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

David, there's no way to know for sure what will sound good to you. I've played Teles using all the parts you listed except the Glendale bridge, and I don't know if I could argue one is better than another, per se. Certainly have played very, very good Teles with the much cheaper stock vintage-style Tele bridge plates and the Duncan Broadcaster pickup, which I think sounds very good and twangy. Fralin makes a great pickup too. My old shop sold his pickups, and we always talked to him to make sure we got Strat and Tele pickups spec'd the way we wanted - generally absolutely old-school and not overwound at all for max classic Tele clank or Strat zing. Of course, this may not suit you - you may like a slightly overwound Tele pickup. You really need to think about what sound you're going for very specifically. Great old Teles run a range - they're not cloned.

One way to think about buying a particular part - what if you buy the high-end part and it doesn't sound good to you? Now you have to take a fairly big loss on it and try one or more cheaper ones. So if there's a significant difference in price, I would start with the cheaper parts, and then move up in price if one or more doesn't move me. Of course, I'm talking about parts that satisfy the basic requirements.

On the body - I have (and have had) great Teles with both light ash and alder. I usually find I prefer very light resonant bodies - if you get ash, I would avoid the real heavy variety. I would use a supplier who will tell you the weight, there are lots of them. This is not to say that a medium-weight body won't work too - but I just find they tend to squawk more with a lighter body. Actually, I think too much density and sustain works against the sound I like best - uniformly, I really don't like heavy Tele bodies. Of course, YMMV.

I mean nothing against Warmoth at all - I think they make very good parts. But I have not tended to like the Warmoth Tele bodies I've played - I've had several over at least 20 years. They were all gorgeous, but also too heavy and didn't do it for me. Maybe they have an option for just a plain plank of light ash or alder, but most of the Tele bodies I see from them have been pretty but heavy. I always avoid stuff like curly or quilted maple tops - beautiful but not for me.

Ideally, I like to handle a body before I buy it. I dunno what it is, but by simply handling and tapping the body, I can usually get a pretty good idea whether or not it will work for me. But insisting that you have to see it in-person before buying does limit your choices. I guess if I was going to buy something like this online, I would want to work with someone who really specialized in vintage-style Tele type parts. Another point is the neck joint fit - I would want to have the neck in-hand to see how it fit into the neck pocket. Since you know for sure what kind of neck you want, you can do this.

Just some ramblings here - as you say, there is no "right" answer, it all has to fit together and sound and play "right" to you.

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Dave Mudgett:

I agree with your statement: "Ideally, I like to handle a body before I buy it. I dunno what it is, but by simply handling and tapping the body, I can usually get a pretty good idea whether or not it will work for me."

This is what you can't do with Warmoth bodies and necks unless you visit the factory and make a choice while there. The guitar I built was a beautiful looking guitar and the neck was a compound radius that I didn't care for. Just my opinion

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