Promote the MUSIC to save steel guitar from decline.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

If you preserve the music, you will save pedal steel guitar from decline. So push the music that pedal steel sonically appears in, whether it be the older country or the early roots country-rock. There IS a market out there.

Note this concept:

The big "suits" that push new country to the demographic "13 year old teenage girls", ignore the fact each teenager has TWO parents that grew up on the older style music. Infact, "New Music" industry literally IGNORES the parents of their demographic target. So seek out those parents and "work the crowd". They are STARVED for good music. I mean start at the local level, and most steel players will find themselves getting busy playing real country music--locally. The bar scene is almost finished due to drinking laws and karaoke, so working the bars is even getting rare in most areas.

How do YOU feel about this?

David Evans · From: North Carolina, USA

I AGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING.HERE IN CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA WE HAVE THE COUNTRY TONIGHT MUSIC SHOW AT THE SELMA ICE HOUSE.IT IS RAN BY FELLOW STEELER BOWIE MARTIN AND FEATURES LOCAL BANDS THAT PLAY REAL COUNTRY MUSIC.WE NEED TO SUPPORT SUCH PLACES AND ENCOURAGE MORE TO OPEN.MAYBE THERE WILL BE A REVIVAL IN REAL COUNTRY LIKE WHEN RICKY SCAGGS AND RANDY TRAVIS APPEARED IN THE 80'S.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

The current state of country music and the steel guitar are 2 different things. We must stop thinking of it as a by-product of country music rather than a versatile musical instrument same as piano, guitar or anything else.

I don't believe the steel guitar is in decline anyway, but the best thing one can do for the instrument is strive to play it to the best of your ability and be open minded about it's application. Encourage and support it's use in all music. Stop protesting it's usage in other music styles and support the steel guitar players that want to take it a different direction.

However, supporting places that have traditional country music is a fine idea. I love playing it too.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Jerry, Excellent Post!!!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I didn't know we were in decline.

I was recently hired to play on two different pro retail projects, one was a Childrens learning program CD and the other a multiple song MUZAK CD.

No Country on either. Pedal Steel on both .

It's the music that matters, not the Instrument.

just my view

tp

PS, I love playing traditional Country as much as the next guy .

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

While support of traditional Country Music forms is a wonderful idea, I agree completely with Jerry's thoughts on this subject.
The steel is far from in decline, ask Bobbe Seymour about sales!
In the Americana, Singer-Songwriter, and "Jam Band" scenes where I do so much of my recording and performance work, the steel is vibrant, alive, very well loved and admired, and under-represented. There are thousands of bands that would LOVE to include steel in their line-up, and many of them would stylistically appeal to more traditional players.
Just takes some leg-work.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I agree that there is a market out there for traditional steel guitar music, but it is, for the most part, an older demographic than even the parents of most 13-year-olds, who are mostly in their 30s and early 40s, and grew up on 80s and 90s rock. OK, maybe some of them listened to country music, but what was dominating country back in the 80s? Sure, some Skaggs and Travis, but I think even more Hank Jr. and Alabama. Even people into late-60s and early-70s style country-rock are in their 50s and 60s now. Most people who were part of what I call classic country music from the 50s and 60s are yet older.

This emphatically doesn't mean that something can't be done to promote this type of music. I agree completely that it should be tackled locally first. I wrote everything I knew to say on this thread, which would perhaps be worth revisiting: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=129994

But there is another problem. Older fans of country music are emphatically not the future of music - or the world, for that matter. I say that as someone who knows perfectly well that my college-age kid's generation is the future, not mine. Steel players emphatically cannot write off young people and expect to have a reasonable place at the table.

Another critical problem is the tendency to write off other styles of music as reasonable avenues for steel guitar. Steel players should not dismiss other styles of music besides country. I won't even bother to cite all the negative rant threads on this forum about other styles of music - it has become far too common to just bash everything but classic country, and it reflects poorly on us, IMHO. I'm not even saying I don't agree with some of the sentiments about modern music, but I think it is far too easy to just argue that everything else is garbage - and it's not.

For the good news - first, I don't think we should just assume that younger listeners cannot appreciate what we so blithely call "real" country music. The notion that they are all too shallow or ignorant to "get it" is, IMHO, a false premise. There is a problem - a strong cultural barrier between most older classic country fans and most younger listeners. But this is easily fixed by simply agreeing that there can be musical common ground without insisting that they buy into other aspects of post-WWII southern culture.

Second, constant ranting about other styles of music besides traditional country is a real problem, but is easily fixed. Simply - we should focus sharply on what we want to do, and completely stop worrying about what others are doing - the latter is completely unproductive effort.

There are also some other threads in the last year on this subject that I thought were useful on this topic - Mikey D's "rant" was intelligently thought out and not ad hominem, but got down to the issues with current music today - ironically, an awful lot of younger players I know completely agree with everything he said there.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=134763

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=134823

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=131491

Jerry - saw your post while I was previewing mine - I completely agree. I know my post is long, but I'm trying to flesh out some of the same territory in a different way.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

"Older fans of country music are emphatically not the future of music - or the world, for that matter."

Maybe that mindset is just a wee bit 'over the top'. They have more influence with the younger folks than one might think. I know when I was playing regularly, the older people always had a few younger folks tagging along. And they're more curious than one would think. I know I have spent quite a bit of time explaining to them the PSG and showing them the 'innards' of how it works.

Some of those folks became students and there are several who continued and are playing with bands now. Guess it's just in the 'How To' in order to get to them. There isn't a decline in PSG users now though. Check with some of the builders, and if it were so, why the long waiting lists for guitars? Really won't wash will it?

phred
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

I've been doing some critique comments on some songs by young artists performing in what they call Folk, but is mostly what I would call singer/songwriter tracks.
Out of the 140 odd tracks I have reviewed, around 10% use steel guitar- some PSG but many more, non-pedal.
If one in ten new, young musicians use steel, that is not looking like a terminal decline to me!
Cheers
Dave

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Dave I wasn't using your quote in a condescending manner but just to show there are many aspects and different thoughts relative to the thread started by a good friend of mine. He's exactly right for the beginnings of new players in his and my part of the country. I still say it's a geographical thing with respect to interesting new players into the PSG world.

James M probably, like we here in the southwest, has numerous 'opry type' shows he can attend on the weekends, and here sometimes on week nights. I think this is what he means by promoting the music or some aspect of it.

I just attended the Johnny High Country Music Revue in Arlington Tx last saturday night and there were scads of young people there, older ones too of course. Not only were these people screaming and applauding the players, but they were especially appreciative of the younger singers. One 10 year old young lady that brought house down, said on the break, "Here's Maurice with that beautiful steel guitar", and the crowd went wild. Always a full house for this one.

There are these type shows all over this state. Maybe one reason there's so many steel players here, and we think that's good.

Anything to help out, but there's no shortage of steel guitar enthusiasts around here. Again maybe it's a geographical thing. In any case we're gonna' keep on doing what's proved beneficial to us. You can bet on it.

phred
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There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!

Think about it!!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Phred, I agree that there are strong regional differences and I know things are very different in Texas. But I was responding to this part of James' initial comment:

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I don't feel it's music that dooms our instrument, but the complexity. Oh, we started out simple enough, but kept adding strings and necks to get what we thought was more music. That wasn't good enough, so we added levers and then pedals, and then more levers and more pedals until we reach the point we're at today. Hardly any two instruments are alike, and while seasoned pros may be quite comfortable with any tuning and pedal setup, the truth is that this complexity presents untold frustrations to every beginner. What pedals do I need? What tuning method should I use? What levers do I need? How many necks? How many strings? What kind of basic tuning? Should I go with all-pull, push-pull, or an old pull-release type? Is it any wonder that prospective players are overwhelmed with the choices and (as some might say) crucial decisions that must be made before you even start???

The very lack of standardization and "customizability" that attracts some players drives away countless others.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Randy Sevearance · From: Crouse, North Carolina, USA

Yes, there is a decline but not in the steel players it's the players that play the older music. I love it but the younger folks that come to hear the music that don't even know the older music much less play it. I'm certainly not dising the traditional musicians because they a the corner stones that brought it all to us,and I certianly respect these folks some of the finest musicians around.I myself like the newer music and I also like the older music very much,but just like going from the 20's to the 50's,70's and so on music changes and there is still some really good traditional country music out there you just have to listen instead of shooting it down because it's not what you like or can play.We need to be open to this really versitile instrument.
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James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Well... on a commercial note, I've been noticing that Carter has done a good job getting into the main stream by having a good presence in some of the better known music store magazines. Priced right too. Knowing the success rate of that promo/marketing would certainly shed some light on this topic.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

James - thanks. I totally agree that, in many if not most locales in the US, traditional country music is on the decline, and the demographic stuff you're talking about is accurate.

What are we doing about it? Well, we do promote it by playing in traditional country bands, no doubt. But I think that bringing pieces of it to other styles is yet another way to do it. I always push for some classic country in any project I work with - most people I know are receptive if we can keep it in the context of the band - this works great in lots of roots-Americana styles - folk (e.g., Joan Baez, Tom Rush, Gordon Lightfoot, etc.), folk-rock (Dylan and many others), rock (Springsteen and many others lend themselves to PSG, and when you're doin' tunes by the Boss, a Hank song fits in just fine, thank you), rockabilly (you can just do as much country as you like as far as I'm concerned in that context - any rockabilly band I've ever been in did just that), blues (again, lots of room - ever hear the Holmes Brothers?), soul or other R&B (e.g., Conway Twitty and Sam Moore doing "Rainy Night in Georgia - it's just great, and I will argue that Harlan Howard and Merle Haggard songs are just as able to cross genres as Tony Joe White's), and many others.

Follow the lead of people like Marty Stuart, Patty Loveless, Martina McBride, and many others who are clearly country, but who obviously consider it part of the job to educate as well as sing. And those are some pretty fine role models, IMHO.

And please, oh pretty please with sugar on top - let's stop the constant ranting about styles that we don't like. If we can't even change ourselves enough to stop erupting about this stuff, why do we think we have the power to change others? I know, I know - if you really want to rant, I can't stop you either. But at least think about what I'm saying. Like I said, pretty please with sugar on top.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Maybe it's different in my part of the country, but I just don't see a decline. I'm busier than I've ever been. When I started, there were probably
five or six steel players that I knew of within a fifty mile radius. Now, there are dozens that I know
and I'm meeting new ones all the time. A lot are
of professional ability and are working regularly.
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Ben Hoare · From: NSW Australia

What an interesting discussion.
My 2 cents...........
Surely if the steel guitar is to form a prensence for itself that transends the decades and centuries.Then we need to look at the instruments that have remained in the spotlight eg.guitar,piano etc and we need to look at the history of these instruments to figure out how its done.The steel is a relatively new instrument when compared to these and will have to follow there lead to survive.These instruments have survived and thrived because of there ability to transcend style You can find both on classical,jazz,blues,country,rock,pop,alt and everything in between.
I think people like Robert Randolf (not to get into a for or against discussion...please)should be respected for this.Why?Because whether you like his music or not he is making some people who would otherwise be unaware of pedal steel ,aware and as thier like of the instrument grows they search for it in other areas which leads them back to the traditional.In the same way the Grateful dead or Jerry Garcia did for bluegrass.I grew up in the Australian outback and as a boy worked on the farm,cattle etc and really hated the stigma attatched to country music at the time which was dated or so I thought as a rebellious teen.I was exposed to the Pedal steel by a rock band called Paw that had a steel solo in one of there singles Jessie and I fell in love with the sound I then went back and discovered country music and gained a love of it because I could identify with the lyrics and the playing was great contrary to what Id come to think.In my opininion the longer we hang on to the steel being a one trick pony the sooner it will go by the way. Having said this these days I love traditional country music.Thank goodness for those non country bands that used steel that helped me to find what I love today.On a happy note there is real growth of the instrument I know many young guys like myself getting into it and I play all over the country and the majority of the age bracket we now see is 18-40 which is great compared to previously so steel has no reason to decline here.Sorry for the long winded point

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Up here pedal steel is growing,,but not just with country bands. There are a lot of people that want something pretty added in without referencing the past. I get a lot of requests from indy rocker/emo type bands that want it is an ambient/flowing element to there music. A lot of people on the forum dismissed Danial Lanois as a hack, but a lot of people tell me thats the sound they want. I have been asked not to play any "tinny classic country stuff" by a few people (who have never heard me play before) because thats what they think of classic country.

I myself love to play Classic country as often as I can, but I also try to stay open minded about other styles as well. There is a large demand for good steel with contemporary bands. Probably more so than with modern country.
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Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Interesting, Steve, I hear that a lot from the new
music guys that bring me in on a session, "This is not a country session,"We don't want the twangy stuff". But when we get down to it, they really do want it hillbilly, more so than I would. They want
the sound, they just don't want to be associated
with the country radio sound of the last twenty years.
It's the old, kids reject the music of their parents but embrace the music of their grandparents thing.

Then there are the retro guys who definitely want the Bakersfield sound, the more trebly, the better.

I've posted this before, but I can't tell you how many times I've been brought in to do a "non country"
session to wind up seeing them intoxicated by the sound, only the end up putting more on than I would
if I were producing a George Jones session.

It's the old, "Just play all the time and we'll take out what we don't want." When they send me a finished copy, it's wrapped up with steel.
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James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Interesting how "labels" sometimes get in the way.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I wonder also if we took steel guitar too far for country fans.It is very easy to play over the publics head.One place i used to play weekends told the band leader to get rid of me as i played too much jazz.What a joke.
I do have to admit i didn't play the melody at times,but jazz? LOL.Shows what non musicians know.
Like many steelers my age who have played for many years playing straight country can get very boring.Now back in the swing days you either picked it or packed it.But those days are gone.
IMHO i think steel would go over better now if more played like Paul Franklin.I haven't listened to much country in the past several years but P.F.plays such layed back steel it is beautiful.Listen to his work on George Jones Choices and later Timless by a female singer whos name escapes me.Again,simple beautiful playing.
So in IMHO i blieve the ones just starting on steel should forget about learning big fat chords,hot licks,ect and play for the public.
Time Changes every Thing.An old Bob Wills song.When i retired from the road and started playing local weekends i would have put our drummer up against any Jazz drummer in the area.He no longer playes,but we were talking the other day and he said he would love to play again,but with a western swing band.He loves the music as i do.
Keep it simple stupid.LOL.
BTW.If i want to hear the best i can drag out my Curly Chalker tapes.I don't mean style here,but the man who had no peers when it came to knowledge of the steel,.like Jascha Heifetz had on violin.Tracy

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