| Author |
Topic: What National model is this? |
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 24 Aug 2008 1:00 pm |
|
A friend of mine just got this one,- the guy he got it from claimed it was a Chicagoan, but it doesn't look like a 'normal' Chicagoan to me.
Anyone have any info about it? Thanks.
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
|
|
 |
Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 24 Aug 2008 3:31 pm
|
|
| I saw one of those on ebait once. I figured it was their Electric Hawaiian model, produced before the New Yorker, but shaped much like it. The Chicagoan is a mots (plastic) finish model, listed as #1075 in their catalog. |
|
|
|
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
|
|
|
|
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
|
|
|
|
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 24 Aug 2008 4:52 pm
|
|
| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
an early 1940s white cheaper version of the New Yorker, with string-through pickup and a hard-wired cable.
|
That makes a lot of sense, it has the general NY shape, string through pickup and hard wired cable.
Only thing I'm not sure about is the name, Brad has this photo posted as a Princess on his site:
Could the mighty Brad be wrong?  
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
|
|
|
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 4:28 am
|
|
I'm looking at this New Yorker Fred sold a while back, it has much of the same features as this rare 'albino' model; Roman numeral position markers, string through pickup, black handrest/pickup cover, plus the general body shape is the same.
So I'm pretty convinced it's a New Yorker 'sibling', just not sure about the name (though "Princess" would be a very fitting name, it's a beauty!).
According to my friend it has a very powerful output, so the pickup seems to be in good condition.
Would you guys consider replacing the hard wired cable with a regular jack output a "no-no"?
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
|
|
|
Rick Batey
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 5:32 am
|
|
Great steel! I’ve been chatting backstage with Steinar and he asked me to post, so here goes...
My feelings go towards an early-type Dynamic, built before it adopted the familiar ‘two side pieces’ design in 1947.
Here are the specs for the Dynamic and Fred's suggestion, the Princess, taken from the Gruhn/Carter guide... which is not infallible, of course.
Dynamic, 1942-47
Stairstep body outline like New Yorker... yes
Hard-wired cord... yes
Knobs on opposite sides on arrow-shaped markers... yes?
23” scale, Roman numeral markers... yes
White ebonoid top plates... yes
Clear plastic pickup cover... no
Rounded peghead... ??
Black sides and back... ??
Princess, 1942-1947 only:
One-piece stairstep body... yes
Strings through pickup...yes
Knobs on opposite sides... yes
Knobs on square plates with radial design... no
Parallelogram outline markers... no
White pearlette covering... no |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 6:20 am
|
|
It sure is a beauty.
| Quote: |
| Would you guys consider replacing the hard wired cable with a regular jack output a "no-no"? |
It looks to be in very nice condition and apparently kind of rare, so I'd be inclined to do leave it be.
If it did need changed for playability reasons, I'd keep any modifications limited to those that are reversible.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
|
|
|
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 6:27 am
|
|
Steinar - is there a serial number? Should be a brass plate on this one (back of the neck, at the end of the headstock) and I bet it is a G-suffix number and that this is a "war years" National.
I am also curious about the name. I saw one like it sold as a "Princess" on eBay (but we know how reliable a source of knowledge eBay is  ) but I think I have seen this model in a 1940 repro National catalog I have somewhere... - pause as I looked for this catalog and to my surprise FOUND IT  and took the following photos:
This is from the 1940 National catalog and it appears to be the predecessor of the guitar in Steinar's post. The one in the catalog has MOTS finish rather than plain white and the controls in the same position as the contemporary New Yorker, whereas the one posted above has controls like a Chicagoan. The fretboard of the one in the catalog is like the 1939-40 version of the New Yorker (parallellograms, no Roman numbers) and the one above has Roman numbers like those on the 1941 New Yorker I sold (see Steinar's link).
I am pretty sure this is a "Princess" made in 1941-42 (when production stopped due to USA's involvement in WWII).
The 1940 National catalog also states:
| Quote: |
"THE PRINCESS"
A modern answer to "trouble-free" volume and sparkling string response. A truly radiant Electric Hawaiian Guitar that will dazzle your listeners with its brilliance - its dash - and most of all with its heart-warming Hawaiian tone.
We all know that any product can be described as "Best" - "Finest" - "Superior!" So don't let mere words be your guide. See and try this quality instrument and make all those comparisons that every careful buyer should make. The merit and performance of "THE PRINCESS" will speak for itself, answering your most critical inquiries. See your neighborhood dealer today. No obligation. |
Regarding the Colombian Toño Fuentes LP above with "strings that cry", I found it in this SGF post. And now, by google, I found the a record by the same artist with sound samples (but in WMA format so I can't listen on my Mac  ):
http://www.discosfuentes.com/epages/Discosfuentes.sf/es_ES/?ObjectPath=Products/REFEGE5003
These guitars seem to have been popular in South America at this time - the 1941 New Yorker Steinar mentions above I bought from an antique dealer in Peru (selling mainly religious artifacts)!
Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
|
|
|
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 6:53 am
|
|
| Rick Batey wrote: |
Great steel! I’ve been chatting backstage with Steinar and he asked me to post, so here goes...
My feelings go towards an early-type Dynamic, built before it adopted the familiar ‘two side pieces’ design in 1947.
Here are the specs for the Dynamic and Fred's suggestion, the Princess, taken from the Gruhn/Carter guide... which is not infallible, of course.
Dynamic, 1942-47
Stairstep body outline like New Yorker... yes
Hard-wired cord... yes
Knobs on opposite sides on arrow-shaped markers... yes?
23” scale, Roman numeral markers... yes
White ebonoid top plates... yes
Clear plastic pickup cover... no
Rounded peghead... ??
Black sides and back... ??
Princess, 1942-1947 only:
One-piece stairstep body... yes
Strings through pickup...yes
Knobs on opposite sides... yes
Knobs on square plates with radial design... no
Parallelogram outline markers... no
White pearlette covering... no |
Hi Rick! Didn't see your post until after I posted mine. I think there are some flaws in Gruhns National lap steel info - I remember seeing some incorrect info about a New Yorker they sold on their website, and National did not make guitars from 1942 until at least the end of WWII in 1945. I think the first post-war instruments are dated 1947. But who knows - I don't know much about how the first Dynamics looked.
Fred
_________________
www.fredrikkinbom.com - New lap steel album out now - listen here: fredrikkinbom.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-lap-steel-and-harmonium |
|
|
|
Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 7:56 am
|
|
| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
These guitars seem to have been popular in South America at this time - the 1941 New Yorker Steinar mentions above I bought from an antique dealer in Peru (selling mainly religious artifacts)!
Fred |
Very interesting place to find a New Yorker. I always thought that the Nationals although deco in design had a "gothic" look to them. In the right light they look as much like an old stone church as the Empire State Bldg. |
|
|
|
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 9:49 am
|
|
| Fred Kinbom wrote: |
| Steinar - is there a serial number? |
Yup - 3288G, so that dates it as a 1940-42 model..
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
|
|
|
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
|
|
|
|
Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 2:23 pm
|
|
That's an 1942 National Dynamic, Steinar. (The original guitar shown at the top of the page).
My photo of a National Princess may be of a different year than the National Princess shown in the catalog. Or I could be wrong.
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
|
|
|
Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
|
Posted 25 Aug 2008 3:20 pm
|
|
Thanks Brad, and everybody else who's contributed! 
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
|
|
|
Mark Makin
From:
Nottingham, UK
|
Posted 15 Oct 2008 4:27 am
|
|
| The little steel guitar with the black bar markers, short scale and cream pearl finish is not a Princess, nor a Chicago, nor a Chicagoan - it is a SUPRO SUNBEAM from 1941 |
|
|
|
Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
|
|
|
|
Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 15 Oct 2008 4:21 pm
|
|
| Don't feel too bad Brad. I was wrong once too. I think it was in 1947. |
|
|
|
