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Topic: Tuning choices for "Showtunes"? |
Judson Bertoch
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 8:45 am |
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What do you recommend for tunings for showtunes (Irving Berlin / Cole Porter / Rogers-Hammerstein / etc)?
Not sure how to classify this music - jazz or big band or what so I went with "showtunes."
Leavitt tuning?
Thanks! |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 11:32 am
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it's American songbook. this IS jazz i.e. OLD Jazz. Otherwise known as Jazz standards. Any tuning you'd use for jazz.
Show tunes actually don't sound right i.e. don't swing. it's really the watery version of these tunes. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 12:02 pm
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It does not matter what style you call these tunes, they consist of a more intricate chord structure. It also does not matter what style you play them in. The style does not diminish the architecture of the songs.
The Leavitt tuning with at least 8 strings will get you all the chords you need. You can do a lot with 6 but I prefer more. 10 or 12 strings will get you everything pretty much. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 12:40 pm
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
It does not matter what style you call these tunes, they consist of a more intricate chord structure. It also does not matter what style you play them in. The style does not diminish the architecture of the songs.
The Leavitt tuning with at least 8 strings will get you all the chords you need. You can do a lot with 6 but I prefer more. 10 or 12 strings will get you everything pretty much. |
Sure it matters because, the style also involves how you interpret the melody, etc. Not to mention when they're played or published as show tunes many times the chords are simplified. Unlike say the New Real Books where the voicing are often over complicated.
He didn't mention chords specifically. There's more to a song than the chords. So i answered the other aspect of his question.
There's too much exclusive priority spent on chords when talking about tuning choices for these songs.
The question nw as VERY open ended with MANY aspects to consider. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 1:02 pm
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If you want to play extended chord voicings, then Leavitt. If you want to play the melody mainly and hit partial voicings for the chords, then a 6th tuning like C6 or A6 (or variations thereon.) If you want a real challenge, use open G.
You don't need an 8 string, 6 will work just fine (though you may become octave restricted.) If you have an 8 string, or are just drawn to 8 string, OTOH, go for it!
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 5:03 pm
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| I've always played some so-called show tunes. They work OK for me in C13th. I play the easy/slow stuff mostly, like Charmaine etc. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 13 Oct 2008 6:03 pm
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
He didn't mention chords specifically. There's more to a song than the chords. So i answered the other aspect of his question.
There's too much exclusive priority spent on chords when talking about tuning choices for these songs.
The question nw as VERY open ended with MANY aspects to consider. |
Not when your talking about these types of complicated songs. You play them simple...they sound stupid, or they sound like the player is not capable of doing them justice. No respectable jazz artist does these using vanilla chord changes like some of the fake books have. Try playing "My Mans Gone Now" from Porgy and Bess or "O What A Beautiful Morning" from Oklahoma or one of hundreds of these great songs and use poor chord changes. You will get laughed at in the circle of most jazz musicians.
You cannot put enough priority on the chords in these songs. What has made them so alluring to jazz artists is the incredible framework that these intricate chords give to improvising.
He did not have to mention chords. He mentions a type of musical composition that uses a level of chordal use that is very complex in relation to say country music, or rock or Polkas etc.
If he had asked for a tuning for HillBilly music I would have suggested a tuning that is more in line with C F and G and a cloud of dust. He asked about show tunes. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2008 4:57 am
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"You will get laughed at in the circle of most jazz musicians. "
But Bill! Jazz guys do laugh at everybody else anyway! When I told my buddy that I was studying Jazz, he said, "Oh! So you want to know everything!"  |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2008 5:09 am
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| When you fight the jazz wars, you run into all kinds of attitudes. Sometimes the attitude translates into a healthy power in your playing, sometimes it is just a substitute for inability. You have to sort it all out, and listen to see what it real and what is jive. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 14 Oct 2008 6:16 am
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man oh man people READ READ READ the postings before you answer them. i said too much EXCLUSIVE priority!!!
The songs may sound stupid simplified but, the transcriptions are out there and since you don't know what he has and he is calling them show tunes he may have a watered down transcirption.
See when i asnwer a question i consider possible factors not jump to assumptions based on very little provided information.
Call these tunes show tunes in front of REAL jazz musicians (I happen to be one but, what do I know) and you'll REALLY get laughed at! |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 14 Oct 2008 12:43 pm
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I know lots of folks who like those rich chords for strumming across the strings etc, which is OK, but I use only enough of the chord to add the harmony to the note. I'm not a strummer. Maybe because of playing Hawaiian stuff, which was sometimes single string work by the old timers.
Jazz type music is above my pay-scale  |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2008 7:35 pm
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Well, there is plenty of ground between full blown jazz arrangements and vanilla 1, 3 and 5 chord arrangements. If the questioner really wants to play anything like what most of us would consider showtunes, he's unlikely to be satisfied with the latter. If you want to play melody chord style, I would say that as a general rule Mr. Hatcher is correct. I'd go with Leavitt. But I have found the 6 string Leavitt less than adequate to my desire for minor chord voicings in particular. So I would recommend more than 6. But my knowledge ends here. 7, 8, 10, 12.....I couldn't hazard a guess. But it is also possible to play through sophisticated chord changes single string style. This is my prefered method. I do occassionally add some harmony. But just for short passages. And seldom full chords. The patterns of C6 chord play are well worn and overly familiar to most people. They are considered stereotypical. I use the common C6 with the 3rd on top and do quite well with 6 strings.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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