| Author |
Topic: Charlie Christian PU on LDG |
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 8 Oct 2008 11:31 pm |
|
Has anyone out there ever used a Lollar Guitars Charlie Christian Pickup on a 10 string PSG?
If I were to attempt this, I want to be sure the results would be as expected.
Here's the info Jason gave me.
1. 38 gauge magnet wire @ 7000 turns
2. Wrapped around nickel plated steel blade
3. One inch tall
4. Alnico5 magnet on bottom
5. Big Single Coil
6. 4000 to 7000 Ohms (guess).
7. Jason Lollar 206-463-9838
8. Charlie Christian Pickup $250.00
This link shows the pickup for a Telecaster. It would be a custom job for PSG.
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LGP&Product_Code=222&Category_Code=PP
Any feedback is appreciated... especially from anyone that has actually ordered and used one of these for PSG. |
|
|
 |
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:56 am
|
|
| Not the same magnets as the original. Can't sound the same. |
|
|
|
J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 3:58 am
|
|
| What results do you expect? I haven't any experience using one of these pickups on a pedal steel, but had a lapsteel with a Charlie Christian pickup in it, and it sounded bright. When I had an LDG, I loved the sound of the stock pickup, especially through a tube amp with a JBL D130F in it. Had a lot of character and complexity to the sound...Jerry |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 4:09 am
|
|
Beware of pick-ups that claim long sustain, there is no such thing as long sustain from the pick-up, its in the instrument. Jeff unless you what specs you want for windings and tone, having a custom one can be very exspensive and trying; You really cant guestimate a tone, have you tried any of the 'tried and tested' models.
If you want a custom pick-up however, i have hear that Jerry Wallace is a great person, and he also knows Steel guitar, and that really helps. I'd hate to see you waste your money jeff, as we have all done in the past.
Just my opinion!  |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:05 am
|
|
| No experience of one on a pedal steel but I have the Tele version on my arch top and I love it. Dunno if it sounds like an original CC PU and I don't even care, it sounds great. Using one on a psg should be interesting, Jason's work is outstanding and his Pu's are very reasonably priced IMO. |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:15 am
|
|
| If it does not sound like the CC pickup and it does not have the same magnets as the original, why is it called that?....just because it sort of looks like it??? |
|
|
|
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:22 am
|
|
I appreciate all the feedback. I know it could be a quick waste of dollars. I do love the tone I currently have on my LDG... but I've never heard a better tone ever then that of a CC on a 1936 Gibson EH-150. I was just hoping to clone that tone on a PSG if possible. I was up front with Jason that I was going to be influenced by a post on the PSG forum. He was OK with that. Unless anyone has actually tried this combo, and can make an experienced claim as to the results, I'll just have to sit back and drool when I occasionally pluck the EH-150. I put my money on you forumites before I'd make any plunge like this.
Bill... the look, feel and CC name is what drew me to the Lollar site from a Google search. He was honest that he could not guarantee the same CC tone results on a 10 string as a 6 string... but he said it should be close. How close is my issue.
Last edited by Jeff Hyman on 9 Oct 2008 5:45 am; edited 6 times in total |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:22 am
|
|
Bill, I didn't say it doesn't sound like one. It very well might, it's just I haven't had a chance to compare it to a real one side by side, that would be the only accurate test. Charlie Christian's tone was quite different from i.e. Barney Kessell's tone on Poll Winners albums, even though they both had that same PU on their guitars. See what I mean!! I do know that it doesn't sound like a P90 or a DeArmond Dynasonic for example, since I had both of those on my guitar prior to this.
Edit: and like Jeff states between the lines, the combo of that PU and EH150 ( or 180 ) is the big part of the "Charlie Christian" tone. |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:40 am
|
|
| Jussi Huhtakangas wrote: |
Bill, I didn't say it doesn't sound like one. It very well might, it's just I haven't had a chance to compare it to a real one side by side, that would be the only accurate test. Charlie Christian's tone was quite different from i.e. Barney Kessell's tone on Poll Winners albums, even though they both had that same PU on their guitars. See what I mean!! I do know that it doesn't sound like a P90 or a DeArmond Dynasonic for example, since I had both of those on my guitar prior to this.
Edit: and like Jeff states between the lines, the combo of that PU and EH150 ( or 180 ) is the big part of the "Charlie Christian" tone. |
You cannot make any comparisons on Christians tone and Kessels tone from a recording. The studio, the tape machine, EQ, mastering, mic used, etc etc. They both were recorded at totally different time periods and totally different equipment.
I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am just saying that this CC pickup from Loller is hype. It cannot sound like the original Gibson pickup. The cobalt magnets, the size of them, the positioning of them, all of that makes a difference. These Loller PUs have plain, ordinary, Bb, vanilla, nothing special magnets placed directly under the bobbin. This is very misleading to even associate them with an original CC Gibson pickup.
If you like them, so be it, but you are not hearing the sound of the REAL CC pickup. NOTHING sounds like those. It is impossible to recreate that tone without ALL the variables. |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:53 am
|
|
Yeah, well, even a real CC Pu now doesn't sound like one when it was built originally. Those cobalt magnets by now ( in 70 yrs or so ) have lost appr. a third of their power so I really can't say if Jason's PU sounds like one ( now that we got into splittin' hair  ) |
|
|
|
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 5:56 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| If you like them, so be it, but you are not hearing the sound of the REAL CC pickup. NOTHING sounds like those. It is impossible to recreate that tone without ALL the variables. |
When I disassembled my EH-150 to see the guts of the CC, there was a huge chunk of flat copper plate that was probably 4 times larger then the CC itself. I believe this had something to do with the tone. I mentioned this to Jason and he told me it did not. Any ideas what this flat copper piece does? |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
|
|
|
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 6:21 am
|
|
Now this is more like it. This attention to detail makes the Loller pickup look pretty trivial to even mention CC in the ad copy.
Sure would like to have one of these. |
|
|
|
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 6:22 am
|
|
| Bill... I emailed the UK company to see if they make a 10-string for PSG. |
|
|
|
Mike Neer
From:
NJ
|
|
|
|
Rick Batey
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 7:11 am
|
|
...
Last edited by Rick Batey on 10 Oct 2008 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 7:13 am
|
|
Mike,
Your Avatar photo... what's with the hand in the air? :-)
Are you getting ready to:
1. Practice the KungFu Tiger Claw
2. Swat a fly
3. Getting ready to yell BINGO!
4. Get permission to go to the bathroom
5. If for harmonics, before or after you plucked the string? <g> |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 7:42 am
|
|
| He is practicing his Homecoming King Float wave. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 7:43 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| I've never heard a better tone ever then that of a CC on a 1936 Gibson EH-150. I was just hoping to clone that tone on a PSG. |
I don't think that's ever gonna happen. But if it ever does, it sure won't be due to the type of pickup used. |
|
|
|
Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 8:23 am
|
|
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I've never heard a better tone ever then that of a CC on a 1936 Gibson EH-150. I was just hoping to clone that tone on a PSG. |
I don't think that's ever gonna happen. But if it ever does, it sure won't be due to the type of pickup used. |
Why not? |
|
|
|
Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 9:22 am
|
|
One more thing; I saw the the UK version at my luthier's workshop, he has a 25 year career of building all types of electric, flattop and archtop guitars, as well as repairing and servicing vintage guitars ( yes, amazingly so, we do have american vintage guitars here  ). Few years ago he built a copy of a Gibson ES150 using Jason's archtop version of a CC PU ( which also is not an exact replica of the original ). He said there really was no significant audible difference between the UK version or the Lollar one, both sounded just like one would expect. I was tempted to choose the UK version but the mounting of the PU and the bracing on my guitar made it impossible. And using the tele version of the Lollar CC most likely kept the guitar acoustically more responsive which to me is more important than an exact CC tone clone.
Sure would like to hear one on a psg too. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 2:57 pm
|
|
| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I've never heard a better tone ever then that of a CC on a 1936 Gibson EH-150. I was just hoping to clone that tone on a PSG. |
I don't think that's ever gonna happen. But if it ever does, it sure won't be due to the type of pickup used. |
Why not? |
Why not?
For the same reason that putting a 400 hp engine in a Volkswagen doesn't make it a Corvette. There's far too many other variables in the equation that aren't even close.
(But you knew that, didn't you?)
A steel isn't like a straight guitar, where you have multiple pickups, switching mechanisms, and pickups placed far away from the bridge.
Different animals, really.
The pickup, in relation to everything else in the sound chain on a steel guitar, plays a very small part in the sound. |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 4:27 pm
|
|
Example;
Putting a Telecaster pick-up in a strat, wont make it sound like a Telecaster;
A singer that i worked for years ago, insisted that i do this install as discribed, He would not listen!
Needless to say, he was very dissapointed when i handed him his butchered strat, that did not sound like A telecaster.
The pick-up is a vibration enhancer, and there is electrical tone, and there is body tone! |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 9 Oct 2008 4:34 pm
|
|
| Jeff Hyman wrote: |
Mike,
Your Avatar photo... what's with the hand in the air?
Are you getting ready to:
1. Practice the KungFu Tiger Claw
2. Swat a fly
3. Getting ready to yell BINGO!
4. Get permission to go to the bathroom
5. If for harmonics, before or after you plucked the string? <g> |
I think its a cool picture!  |
|
|
|
