Banjo strings on a lap steel?

Tay Joslin · From: Clarksvillle, Tennessee USA

I am curious if any of you folks
have ever heard of stringing a
lap steel with banjo strings for
more twang and higher tones?

There is a rumor that the late
Don Helms used to replace one or
two of his strings with banjo
strings for a desired effect.

PLEASE RESPOND!

Thanks,
Tay Joslin
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Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

"Banjo Strings" historically were skinny, suitable for five string long scale (not necessarily long neck) ojnabs. They were coopted by electric guitar players, because, not too surprisingly, it's a whole lot easier to bend an .011 B string than an .014. I don't think anyone ever did it looking for skinny string tone, cause all other thing being equal, a slightly heavier string will sound better in nearly any application. Thin gauge strings were generally not widely available for standard guitar.

I wouldn't think they'd convey any advantage at all on a steel guitar, unless you happened to like a thinner, less resonant sound, or needed to make it easier to bend behind the bar. Doubt that either was a motivating factor for Mr. Helms.

KP

D Schubert · From: Columbia, MO, USA

Seems right that Don Helms would have searched for a light gage string (0.011" or similar) for the high G# note of his E6 tuning.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Years ago, I was scheduled to play at a church dedication in Littleton, Colorado.
I was playing a Sho~Bud, fingertip model, D-10 at the time.
I couldn't keep the 3rd string from breaking and I had exhausted my supply of strings.
I started cruising the music stores in Denver and bought all the strings for the banjo's 5th string I could find.
It got me through the crisis! Very Happy

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I've never heard of that rumor before, Tay. Where did you hear it?
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Tay Joslin · From: Clarksvillle, Tennessee USA

I read about it a while back here
on the forum, but I questioned
whether or not it would work.

Allow me to search the archives,
then I shall quote it for you, Brad.

Tay Joslin · From: Clarksvillle, Tennessee USA

Within the section "Our Extended Family", the post of "R.I.P. Don Helms", page 3, Mr. Larry Petree from Bakersfield, California, stated:

John Burton · From: Manassas, Va

I used to play banjo a bit, not that has anything to do with anything, but..
..a string is a string. An unwound .008 or .009 banjo string is the same as any other unwound string. Period.
The ONLY difference is most banjo strings don't have barrell ends, instead most (not all!) have loop ends.
I've used electric guitar strings on banjos and banjo strings on dulcimers..if the gauge is right it works.

I've heard simular stories of early telecaster players using banjo strings, and am pretty sure the reason was just because of the smaller gauges. (at the time, thin guage guitar strings weren't typically sold in packs)
The "twang" or tone of the string has nothing to do with whether the pack it came out of said "banjo" or "guitar".

Incedently, for my E13 tuned laps I use .010 for the high G#.

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

I think you are correct John. It's all music wire Smile

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Back when I was starting on 6 string, we always used a banjo string for the first string, then moved the regular guitar 1st string over to the second string, and used the regular 2nd string as a third string. We would save a few ball ends from those unused wound 3rd strings, and use them on the banjo string.

Phill Martin · From: Whitewater Kansas, USA

Roy use to use banjo strings on his tele's said they were easier to bend.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I understand that's how Ernie Ball started in the string business.
He had a music store not too far from Fender and he would put string sets together with lighter, thinner strings.
Leo Fender wouldn't put lighter strings on his guitars so the players would have to make a trip to visit Ernie.

Phill Martin · From: Whitewater Kansas, USA

I had not herd that, I had posted the same question while on a blues forum about using banjo strings on a guitar and was told the reason why they use the stings just as you stated. Since then they have made stings with balls on the ends, so the banjo stings are not needed anymore.
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YOU CAN TUNE A GUITAR BUT YOUR CAN'T TUNA FISH!

Bronson Melody King 6 string
National New Yorker 6
National D-8 Totem Pole
Rickenbacker D-6
Rickenbacker D-8
Frankensteinslide (OAHU/body) (SUPRO /string through pickup) (LESTREM/vibrato bridge)M88

Rickenbacker Amp M88 1953
1/2 watt sweet custom tube amp
Valco Supro Brown and White
Danelectro Twin 12
Crate all tube 12 watt with reverb sweeeet....

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

An .010 banjo string won't sound "twangier" on a steel guitar then an .010 steel guitar string. Remember, wire is wire is wire is wire.

Keep in mind this story from Larry Petree is from the late 40s or early 50s. Back then you couldn't buy individual string gauges and steel guitar string sets came with E as the top string. Don required a .010 to get up to the pitch of high G# above E. The only place to find that string was in a banjo set. James Burton had to do the same thing in the early sixties when he wanted a thin high E string. He used a string from a banjo set because it was the only place to find a .10 gauge string back then.

the down side of this is you are a steel player left with a set of four banjo strings in gauges that might be useless to you. This is why we have steel guitar string sets and individual gauges in the modern age.

Also, Jerry Byrd used to buy regular guitar string sets and UNWIND wound strings BY HAND just to get the gauges he needed. He would have bought the right string if he could have, but you just couldn't do that alot of the time back then.

Chris

Lee Jeffriess · From: Vallejo California

Speedy, told me he used a banjo string for the G# on his E6.
Im sure it was a common practice.
Lee

Denny Turner · From: Oahu, Hawaii USA

I too used a banjo string for guitar 1st string and shifted the rest downward one string, ....until light gauge strings came on the scene around 1964. Many drug stores back then had a large Black Diamond tabletop cardboard display box with compartments for individual strings and sets for most popular instruments, which was about the only place you could find individual strings. But Ho-Boy were Black Diamond guitar strings HEAVY guy-wires (that corroded rather quickly) ...which might have inspired the banjo 1st and down-shift of the rest of the guitar set when circumstances made Black Diamond displays the only strings available, even though most major guitar manufacturers also made string sets that were preferred by most Players over Black Diamond but available only at music stores, ...so breaking up banjo sets from music stores was not uncommon among guitarists picking the brains of more experienced pickers. Fender was the first light gauge guitar strings sets I encountered, around 1964; And if I remember correctly they were labeled "Fender special light gauge round wound nickel", ...not too long afterwards dropping the word 'special'. Earnie Ball was the first I remember with a selection of really custom gauge sets, which gave rise to a growing number of other start-up companies following suit ...while the major guitar manufacturers (and Black Diamond) still thought that rock and roll was just a fad that would go away soon, (voila Fender's transistor amps that were introduced around 1965 (?) and promoted as the clean tone future of amps, ...but went over like bean gas in a space suit. Even their silver face tube amps were still engineered for clean tone pushing the headroom as choice of models at that time (buy a bigger amp for clean tone at higher volumes). But the handwriting was on the wall and the majors had to also start making custom gauge sets in the late 1960's and early 1970's when their anticipated death of rock and roll went in the opposite $$$$$ direction (and Black Diamond still selling guy-wires); About the same time the master volume control appeared on Fender amps for the same reason, ...and their guts engineered for more "distortion" near the top of their headroom.
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