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Topic: Help Out an Absolute Beginner |
Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 7:42 am |
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I bought an old, cheap and nasty lap steel (Columbus brand) 6 string electric probably 15 years ago now. To give you an idea how green I was, I tried playing it in standard tuning first - EADGBE, then I got smart, and tried open G and open D, but I never got beyond sounding like a bad blues slide player. I didn't know, or even know of, any other steel players then, and I still don't, but now I have the internet, and it's been such a help with open tunings on guitar, and with ukulele, that I've decided to give the steel another go. I have a good ear, and don't think intonation will be a problem for long (I can play cello and double bass pretty reasonably, for instance).
My strings are a least 12 years old, and anyway, they're a .009 gauge electric guitar set, so they'll need to be replaced; I've found a UK source for a John Pearse 6 string C6 set (C6 is where I plan to start). The same place can sell me John Pearse fingerpicks and thumbpicks, and a variety of bars (the bullet bar that came with the instrument was chromed, and is rusty). Does all this sound sensible?
I've found Greg Cutshaws tab page, but I'm not sure I can interpret the tab - is there a guide somewhere? I can read tab for frets, but the steel tab is confusing me.
Apart from that, what else should I try? Is there a particular book I should read? I'd like to play some Hawaiian stuff, just for fun, but I really want to start adding steel to music which doesn't normally have it - Bruce Kaphan is a hero of mine, but I can't afford a PSG, nor do I think it'd be realistic for me to invest the time to play one! |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 10:24 am
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Welcome aboard Sam! 
| Quote: |
| I've found a UK source for a John Pearse 6 string C6 set (C6 is where I plan to start). The same place can sell me John Pearse fingerpicks and thumbpicks, and a variety of bars (the bullet bar that came with the instrument was chromed, and is rusty). Does all this sound sensible? |
Yeah, that should get you started. 
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| I can read tab for frets, but the steel tab is confusing me. |
I'm no big tab reader myself, but what's confusing you about the steel tab vs regular guitar tab?
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| Apart from that, what else should I try? |
Regardless of what style and tuning you want to play, there are the same basic techniques that needs to be mastered, like pitch (obviously), vibrato, picking/muting techniques, etc.. There are many DVDs and other instructional material available for the C6 tuning, here's a few suggestions: Cindy Cashdollar, GeorgeBoards, Mel Bay - these are just a few I found through Google, I'm sure others will come up with even more suggestions. Cashdollar and GeorgeBoards are for 8-strings, but as far as I understand there's no problem transferring what they teach to 6-strings.
| Quote: |
| I really want to start adding steel to music which doesn't normally have it |
I like your attitude!
_________________
"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 12:13 pm
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Actually, after listening to some of the audio to go with that tab, it was all completely clear. There were a couple of symbols I didn't understand, but it became transparent with the listening.
I've also found loads of learning resources, but I don't want to spend any of my decidedly limited cash on them without getting some opinions from those who've experienced them of what's best! Thanks for the steers. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 12:24 pm
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Probably the best resource to learn steel is Jerry Byrd's book w/CD and his seperate video.
You can find the purchasing info and more at my lil site's tutorial page - www.hwnsge.5u.com
An added bonus concerning the CD is that as great as it is a learning tool, it is also full of otherwise unreleased playing by him and his stellar accompaniment, Benny Kalama on uke and Kalani Fernandes on bass. Their all dead now, so here you get a feel for what you might have seen if you were lucky enuf to catch them on stage.
Have fun! |
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Jim Waldrop
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 6:02 pm
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| Sam, I just spent the last year learning 8 string lap steel. I was fortunate enough to have a great teacher but I also used a book and CD called " basic C6th Nonpedal lap Steel Method" , by Dewitt Scott. It is a perfect beginning lap steel instruction course and the CD provided will allow you to practice the things you learn on actual songs. I also bought John Pearse picks and tone bar and they are great. I believe I could have gotten to where I am with just the DeWitt Scott book but it would have taken longer without the instructor. I found another great source of material once you are farther along is the George Boards CD's and DVD's. Good Luck, it is worth the effort. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 6:23 pm
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| The one problem I've heard with the Scott book is it supposedly doesn't address one of the most important and basic issues for the rank beginner, that of how to properly hold the bar. |
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Eldon Cangas
From:
Ontario, Canada
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 5:14 am
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If you want a basic starter course on 6-string C6, De Witt Scott's book mentioned above is probably your best bet. Cindy Cashdollar's videos are great for Western Swing/country stuff, but you really need a high G on your C6 tuning to get the most from them.
Search on "lap steel" in the UK eBay and you can find all these and more. I don't know if Gerry Hogan's shop is still going in Newbury, but he used to have most of Scotty's (De Witt Scott's) books.
Nick
(born in Southampton but moved away 50 years ago!) |
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 2:25 am
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Thank you all! This has been extremely helpful, and I think I'm probably well set up to start playing once I get my strings, fingerpicks etc.
One more question - I have a good acoustic guitar amp, and a Roland JC120 electric guitar amp. I presume I'd be better off with the JC120, and a volume pedal, but does anyone have any other hints as to tone and effects? |
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Loren Claypool
From:
Mequon, WI
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 5:29 am
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Sam, some of the guys and gals here can answer the tone and effects question far better than I when it comes to those classic and traditional steel tones. Not instead of, but in addition to, those tones, I am a huge proponent of using the instrument for non-traditional applications. Why not play a lap steel through a series of delays into a looper - luscious pads? Why not use a chorus and a pitch shifter down an octave - great fretless bass? We're limited only by our imagination. It's all good if it serves the music.
So Sam, I say throw it all against the wall and see what sticks!
_________________
Loren Claypool
genre-indifferent instrumental guitar music
www.lorenclaypool.com
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Flickr |
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 6:16 am
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I'm with you on that! Interested in playing some hawaiian things for fun and barbeques, but no interest in Western Swing, and whilst I enjoy a subset of country, that's not what I'm into playing, so it's definitely about unusual applications for me!
I do want to start at least with something like a traditional tone, however. You have to start somewhere. Right? |
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Loren Claypool
From:
Mequon, WI
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 7:39 am
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| You might be amused to know I just read your signature as "Genre: indifferent instrumental guitar music"! |
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Doug Freeman
From:
Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 11:07 am
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| The one problem I've heard with the Scott book is it supposedly doesn't address one of the most important and basic issues for the rank beginner, that of how to properly hold the bar. |
That's the only book I've looked at so far and it really doesn't have much to say about holding the bar properly. Who or what source DOES address that issue? A question in particular: what's the reason for making sure the wrist remains straight and the hand stays perpendicular to the strings when doing slants? I figure there must be one (other than it looks cool, that's how the masters do it, etc.) but on my own I haven't really figured out the practical reason for it. Is it the same as in playing any other instrument: economy of movement allows more musical possibilities in a given span of time? |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 12:40 pm
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It's all that and more, Doug. Holding the bar as Jerry Byrd and many others correctly do, will allow you to perform simple to extreme forward and reverse slants in a manner that will be both smooth and expressionable, without the unneccessary and limiting arm/wrist movements. This is one of the keys to utilizing the fretboard to it's fullest and playing the steel with utmost feeling.
As always, I stress getting JB's book and video to see how the master did it, should you not have access to a teacher that properly focuses on this.
Hit www.youtube.com for some quick visuals of what I'm talking about. There are many JB vids posted to enjoy and learn from.
I go thru the bar handling process step by step in my basics tutorial. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 8:15 pm
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Sam, you can always 'phone me and I'll probably be able to help with most questions.. 0182-770-4110 or 0781-687-2166.
You have some very experienced players around the Southampton area that could also guide you. AND you could always consider subscribing to my magazine "Aloha Dream"
Sample pages here:- www.waikiki-islanders.com |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2008 11:45 am Or...
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...you could save your dime, Sam, and continue to ask your questions here on the forum so that we all can have the enjoyment of discussion and education that this forum is intended.
I certainly appreciate Basil's offer, but overall, we need to keep these pertainant conversations right here were everybody can benefit. |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2008 3:42 am
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| Quote: |
| ...you could save your dime |
Now where in the world (or outer space) did that idea come from????? What in the world could be wrong with Sam giving Basil a telephone call ??????????? 
Most every Musician I've ever known has spent plenty of time on the phone learning as much as they can from Players kind enough to share their knowledge and commeraderie.
I would advise Sam to indeed give Basil a call, recording device in hand if possible, and savor every detail Sam can glean from Basil's knowledge, advice and kind offer.
_________________
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 29 Oct 2008 12:09 am
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Just wanted to say a quick thankyou to everyone who contributed advice here. I got my strings, picks and steel, strung up the guitar, hooked up my volume pedal, and I'm starting to have some fun! As I anticipated, intonation is not proving a problem, but I'm having fun learning to dance around the 6th in C6 tuning. I'm working on accompanying some songs I like (with a view to entering one of them into the Bushman World Ukulele Contest, so it'll need to be fairly good), and that's encouraging me away from sounding too Hawaiian! I just printed out some tab for Sleepwalk, since I think learning some "standards" is probably the next step!
Thankyou all, and I guess you can expect at least to see the Bushman contest video appear here at some point. |
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Les Anderson
From:
The Great White North
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Posted 29 Oct 2008 12:05 pm
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| Sam Wise wrote: |
One more question - I have a good acoustic guitar amp, and a Roland JC120 electric guitar amp. I presume I'd be better off with the JC120, and a volume pedal, but does anyone have any other hints as to tone and effects? |
Sam, at this stage of your learning curve, the amp you use is secondary. When I bought my first D8 non-pedal, I used an early 60s, Fender Princeton Reverb amp. It's not a stage amp for a steel guitar for sure; however is more than adequate for learning. |
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Sam Wise
From:
Southampton, UK
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Posted 29 Oct 2008 10:36 pm
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| Sure, but I guess my question really was, which of the two amps I have to choose from will be better tone-wise. So far I've been using my acoustic amp, which is designed for completely flat response, ie not to shape the sound that comes into it at all unless you use the EQ. The sound I'm getting is ok, but not brilliant, however I don't really know if that's down to the cheap-and-nastiness of my guitar. The electric guitar amp, a Roland JC120, is hardly a rock-and-roll amp, but it certainly does the tone-shaping that electric guitars need. I may try that. Regardless, I'm really enjoying myself! |
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Dean Gray
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 30 Oct 2008 2:35 am The JC120 will be fine
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Hi Sam, I have a Roland JC-77 amp, which with 2 10" speakers is the smaller version of your JC120. After some advice from fellow forumites, I started using it with the treble and bass controls wound right off, and using the mid control as a "tone" control. This seemed to remove some of the sterile or cold quality these amps are known for, and introduced a bit more warmth.
I use mine regularly for gigs, and it works out fine...Yes, there are better amps for steel out there, but never let that stop you making the most of what you have right now. You could do gigs with that amp no problems.
All of the advice given so far regarding instructional material is spot on, and I would also add that Rick Alexander and Herb Remington have some great material to help you on your way.
Good luck and happy steelin'
Deano
_________________
If it’s on the ground it can’t fall down. |
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Stephan Miller
From:
Silver Spring, Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2008 8:53 am
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I'd be surprised if your Roland--after some tweaking for tone-- didn't give you a far better sound than your acoustic amp.
You might find a small tube amp gives you a more pleasing tone for steel than either of the ones you have. On the other hand, upgrading to a better instrument is probably the better investment at the moment. The electronics, nut & bridge materials, string spacing, etc. are usually pretty uninspiring on a "cheap and nasty" guitar, as you describe it.
Good luck and many happy hours! |
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