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Topic: Levers D, E,... 4,5??? |
Ken F. Hill
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 2:13 am |
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Hi,
I have searched around for the answer to my next question... but cannot find an obvious answer. Some folks use letters for the pedals/levers or numbers… But is there a standard tuning for them. The foot pedals I think I can understand but the knee levers???? On my Sho-Bud LDG. LKL raises 4 and 8. RKL lowers 4 and 8. LKR lowers 5, raises 7. RKR lowers 2. What letters relate to which pedals… Is it by position or tuning? For a standard E9 tuning what levers do I need?
Sorry if this information is easy to find but I have looked… I have looked here http://www.larrybell.org/id12.htm but it does state which lever is D, E,....
Regards
Ken |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 2:52 am
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Ken, I just happened to be looking at copedents, and you may find enough here to answer your question.
http://b0b.com/tunings/index.html
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Ken F. Hill
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 2:59 am
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See easy when you look!
Thanks
Regards
Ken |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 3:03 am
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It's not that easy even when you look.
I've spent hours (over years) comparing copeds.
I had the same question; seems up to the individual to make sense of the variations.
I have components from Jimmy Day, Franklin, etc....
So every pedal/lever I have can be found on somebody's chart, just not all in one setup.
Good luck!
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 5:19 am
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although I do not pretend to be an expert, the common terms I have READ and USED is
4 and 8 Raise as the F lever , meaning the F note
4 and 8 lower as the E lever, some call this the D lever as well..
5/10 1/2 step lower ( B to Bb ) has been commonly termed the X lever, I also refer to this as simply the Bb lever ...
7 raise ? your guess is as good as mine.
The short answer is that it really doesn't matter, if you are reading tab you can see what lever is used on which string and you should recognize the raise or lower compared to your own Steel.
When I write tab for my programs, on the odd ball raises or lowers I just write it right on the TAB ! It really doesn't matter what lever raises or lowers string 2 for ex, what matters is that the PLAYER knows.
The late great Jimmy Crawford used to just put +1 or -1 right on the tab. This makes the most sense to me.
just my take |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 8:31 am
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I agree with Tony: There is no real standard for letter designations for knee levers.
In tab, I prefer using # / b / X (dbl sharp) / bb
It forces the student to learn what a lever DOES vs what you CALL IT. (This is actually the system that Jimmie Crawford used -- he called it MuSymTab and it included both tab and std music notation -- shame it didn't catch on)
IMHO, every pedal steel player should know by instinct (meaning: instantaneously) when you strike a string which pedals or levers change it. Everyone should work on that until it's second nature. Again, IMHO.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 3:55 pm
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To the best of my knowledge over these many years, the following should be close:
When Buddy Emmons split the lone pedal that Bud Isaacs came up with to get "that sound" in the '50's, the "split" pedals were called "A and "B" pedals for simplicity's sake.
Buddy told Jimmy Day about it in a phone conversation but Buddy did not tell Jimmy which was A or B. Jimmy happened to set them up as B and A
The next pedal to be added was labeled, for obvious reasons, the "C" pedal.
The first knee lever was of course then labeled the "D" lever. NOT because it lowered the 2nd string to a "D" note, rather because it was the next letter in the alphabet.
So far so good and soo simple.
This lone knee lever lowered 2 and 8 a half a tone.
Later someone lowered the 2nd string on this lever to a C# and provided a "half-stop" feel which is pretty much standard today.
Some time later, someone split this knee lever and removed the 8th string lower and put it on a new lever and added the 4 string lower to it.
Some called this the "E" lever. because again, it was the next letter in the alphabet NOT because of what it did. Yet others call it the "D" lever. And some do it just the opposite. So it depends on who you talk to. Jeff Newman called the new lever the "D" lever and the old lever the "E" lever. To me that did not make sense, but then who am I?
The next lever to be added was the lever that raised 4 and 8 a half tone. It has always been called the "F" lever as far as I know. Again, NOT because of what it does, etc.
The next lever that was added raised 1 and 7 a half a tone and was called the "G" lever. Same as above.
The next popular lever lowered 5 and 10 a half a tone, and some call it the "X" lever. I have seen a few times it referred to as the "H" lever. I suppose for lack of something better to call it.
From there it has gone wild. And today the letters can signify any thing to any body.
Best to know what a knee lever does than to try and figure out what the letters mean, if you are a new comer; or are trying to find out.
c.
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 26 Sep 2008 11:35 pm
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As has been said, the letter designations mean different things to different people. You'd be better off spending time learning what they do rather than what to call them.
When I talk to other players, we typically refer to levers by what they do. "Hey, (insert name here), Where do you have your E lower and E raise levers. How about the second string lower" |
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Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 2:39 am Abcdefg
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Not a lot bothers me except this subject.
Helping newbies for a hobby I make it pretty simple for them to understand.
Following Jeff Newman for years with seminars,and having most of his material,he also made it pretty simple.
Some say he called them this ,and called them that.
What he did was to NAME them.
The movement you use to attain the sound he taught ,as the X sound,was written such and such(X).Nothing else.
An E raise, was named the F lever.And yes it does
matter to the newbies.
I have heard some players say that the E going down is called E.How much crap are they trying to throw around.
The D lever is an very important lever,if you get into music a little heavier than a simple band.
Sure.It lets you go to G# minor, ,B6, And the Maj.7th,that allows you to play bandstand backup like the pros in Nashville.
I have helped many a player that for the last twenty years,has never thought of using the D lever,very much.Well,I guess that is good. Some of us may sound much more advanced than some.
I still have time here in Abilene for overnighters
that want to learn a little more than they are getting.
I hope I have not offended anyone. That was not my intention.
Bill Mayville . Jackson S10 (Black )
_________________
Bill Mayville
06 Jackson Commemorative ,S 10
Black.For Sale . $18,000 Kidding |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 3:37 am
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There is always plenty of time in Abilene, home of my youth.
And I have some strongish sentiments regarding nomenclature. I adhere to to L'E' as E lower, and L'F' as F.
I dislike the G# raise being called the B pedal; it should be A, but that battle is lost. So I play by position, not names.
[An aside: the only way to get the nomenclature of levers as 'perfect' would be:
'D' (RKR: D#->D)
'E' (RKL: E->D#)
'F' (LKR: E->F)
'G' (LKL: G#->G).
It's a working setup, but we'd all have to agree just to make the terms work.
Logic can carry you away on steel.]
I prefer the approach Buddy Emmons had in his analysis of lever locations and function, looking at it more deeply than the adoption of convention.
I'll look for the link and post it.
The man can think and write, and his application of logic goes beyond the norm.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 4:51 am
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Here is the link to a lever discussion in great part between Buddy Emmons and Franklin May 2004:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769-2.html
The entire topic is well worth reading, but here is an abstract:
| Buddy Emmons wrote: |
| Experience and logic are two important factors in solving problems. That means you must use the mind’s eye as well as what you see in front of you. When I look at my knee levers, I see more space than I need on each side of the knee. With my leg being wider at the thigh than the knee, logic tells me moving my leg forward would gradually lessen the gap between the levers. From there, minimizing the forward movement of the thigh calls for spacing the levers wide enough to allow freedom at the knee but close enough to let the lower thigh handle the seamless transition from Eb to F. Like everything else, it’s a variable, but it works. |
He goes on to describe a new adventure for the C pedal (it goes Day!) and what he'd do with A.
_________________
Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 27 Sep 2008 6:36 am
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Bill Mayville also can provide ya'll with some great info on a CD if ya contact him!! (and he ain't trying to get rich doin' it!!) 
(He also took the picture I here use on the forum 25 years ago at the Moose Lodge in Sonoma, CA!) 
_________________
DESERT ROSE D-10 8/5...Joe Naylor "SteelSeat"...
Gallien-Krueger MB200 amplifier through an Alessis MicroVerb w/15'Peavey cab.
TELES & STRATS...
FENDER TWIN & SEYMOUR DUNCAN 50W tube amps...1-12" 2-12" & 4-12" cabs and a FENDER MUSTANG-3 |
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Ken F. Hill
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 4:24 am
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Thanks for all your advice.
I am starting to get my head around the levers. I have had my Sho-Bud for a week now and I am making some progress. I love the sound when I get it right! But it can also sound really awful when I get it wrong!!!!!  |
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