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Topic: finger pulls and slants on PSG |
ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 22 Sep 2008 9:12 am |
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This subject is not much discussed re pedals: Finger pulls behind the bar, and slants.
If you have a 6th type tuning = E6, A6, C6, B6 on your PSG (with or without pedals/levers engaged), you have strings that give 1,3,5,6 intervals...often on adjacent strings.
If you finger pull the 3, you get the 6s4 chord.
If you finger pull the 6, you get the 7 chord.
If you finger pull the 1 and 7 you get the m6b5 (dim7) one fret down.
If you finger pull the 5 & 7 you get the 7#5 chord.
Finger pulling string 1 (F#) on the E9 is good for a
#9...same if you have a str 1 D above your C6.
The string 1 pull on an A6 (P1P2 on E9) adds a 7 to the A chord.
String 1 pulls are the easiest.
Pulls below the 4th fret will be more difficult in general.
Finger pulls may be combined with each other, and combined with slants.
If you have adjacent strings = 1,3,5,6 (think C,E,G,A = the I chord)on some fret, a forward slant can get you C,F,A = the IV chord inverted, and up two frets gets you the V chord (D,G,B) on the same strings.
If your 6th based tuning(via with or without changes)is re-entrant = 1,3,5,6,1,3,5,6 or similar, then there are many more options.
I can hear it now...that is what we have pedals and levers for.
Anyone else use these approaches?
After thought = this could be made easier if the string spacing was "changer wide" at both ends as on my BEAST. The Beast is also a 30 inch scale, which allows f pulls on more frets. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 22 Sep 2008 1:59 pm
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| On 10-string E9 pedal steels that don't have a pedal or lever raising string 1, I finger-pull the 1st string F# to G to get the 7th with the A and B pedals down. That use to be very common. |
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Sep 2008 5:35 pm the best
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Billy Robinson.
ernie |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2008 8:16 pm
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Sometimes slant the bar on psg, even though a pedal is available.
HAbit I suppose, but I like the sound. I do both.
I have never mastered pulls behind the bar. Too tight for my delicate hands. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Sep 2008 10:01 pm
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As you can see, in my Signature, I own 3-Steel Guitars, but; finger~pulls, as you call them; cannot be done on any of my guitars! “I JUST WON’T ALLOW IT”!!!
Back-off buddie!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 7:15 am Tryit, you'll like it
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| Awe come on John B....just one little squeeze....what could that hurt? Reach right out there and grab that 1st string...now pull gently...there wasn't that good? |
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John Groover McDuffie
From:
LA California, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 8:50 am sorry for the serious response, but..
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I find the spacing too narrow to get my finger in between strings with any fluidity. I have a lever that pulls string one up to G and at one point tried to cultivate the technique of finger pulling that up to G# but it didn't stick.
I frequently use a slant instead of the A+B pedals to do diatonic 6th passages on strings 4+6, but haven't gone much beyond that with slants. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 8:52 am
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I've never been able to master the finger pull technique, but I often use bar slants on pedal steel. I think in terms of the notes I want and, if a pedal isn't available to get them, I slant the bar.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Parr Bryan
From:
Nacogdoches,Texas
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 9:30 am
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| Use slightly lighter gauge strings on 1st and 2nd on E9 and you can pull both of them to get the knee pull of 1st +1 and 2nd +1/2. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 9:37 am
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Hey, Ed;! Check out the Web~Page under my Signature for your answer!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 10:51 am
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For years, I had watched Buddy Emmons slant in a way that seemed odd, since he already had the E to F lever. He used a backward slant and he used strings 5, 6 and 8 to get a diminished; by raising the 8th string a half a tone using the slant.
So when he first started posting on this forum many years ago, that was the first question I asked him. He responded with his unique and priceless quips.
Since I do not recall just how he phrased the answer, essentially it was, "It sounds better".
I began to do it, and sure enough there IS a subtle difference. And since then, I too often perform that backward slant; to get a "better" sounding diminished on strings 5, 6 and 8. I later analyzed why, and I believe I know the reason.
As to pulling the strings beyond the bar, I have never mastered this, so I don't use it. But listen to this; Kayton Roberts (like Billy Robinson) is doing it more and more, and it is awesome to watch and hear.
Kayton and his wife IvaLee, graciously offered to come and play Hazel's and my "themesong" when we had her service titled, "Celebration of an Angel" at her last rights.
My daughter sang also, and my son played rythym, while Kayton did the kick off, the turnaround and the ending of the song that meant so much to Hazel and I for over 60 yrs............................
"I'll Hold You in my Heart, 'til I can Hold You in my Arms", and as close as they could to Eddy Arnold's awesome hit in circa 1947.
It of course broke me up, but soooooo very appropos. For which I shall be eternally grateful. Since Kayton does not use a straight E tuning; as Little Roy Wiggins did backing Eddy on so many of those incredible hits; Kayton slants a lot, AND now pulls the strings a lot also. Sounds JUST like an E tuning on C6th. Wow!
Hank Snow was VERY blessed to have him as his steel player for over 30 yrs. Like Barbara Mandrell said about Norm Hamlet and Merle Haggard, I feel the same about Kayton and Hank.
May Jesus rest my precious wife's soul, and may He richly bless all the above, always,
c.
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 11:15 am
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A lot of PSG players nowadays, including Lloyd Green and Randy Beavers; use a reverse slant on str. #8 in conjunction wih the (F)=KL to Raise that string a whole tone! A very nice effect! It's like doing a 2-fret Reverse-Slant on #'s 5, 6 & 8 and sometimes along with the (B)-pedal as well! I can't give you an example now, but; use it whenever it fits the sequence! Meanwhile, don't try to bend my strings, or else! http://community.webtv.net/PSGPlayer/ONLYIN Please don't consider that to be a threat! It's _ P______!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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ed packard
From:
Show Low AZ
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 12:17 pm
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John B…you win, I won’t pull your strings till you quit monkeying around per your website!
Dave D. et al…I started on the A tuning, retuned the neck to E as needed. Got a 4 pedal electroharp PSG. Had a “musical neck” on each pedal. Still think in terms of an A, an E, and B tuning (necks). I decided to sacrifice the C6 pedals and get my chords from the A tuning = P1P2. Get the M7 notes via finger pulls, or dropping P2 out. No 5 or 6 tone chords listed here.
HERE IS THE E69 PORTION OF ONE OF MY TUNING/SETUPS.
THE P1P2 COMBINATION GETS THE IV NECK = A6.
ADDING OTHER CHANGES GETS THE CHORDS SHOWN BELOW THE CHART.
THIS FREES UP THE OTHER PEDALS FOR ADDING MY 13 SERIES STRUCTURE.
ADD THE STANDARD P3 CHANGES IF YOU LIKE.
STR-----------LL------LV-------LR-------P1------P2------RL-------RR
---TUNE
2---C# -------------------------------------------------------------D
3---G# --------------------------------------------A
1---F# ----------------G
4---E ---------F--------------- Eb
5---B -------------------------------------C#------------- Bb
6---G# --------------------------------------------A
7---F# ----------------G
8---E ---------F--------------- Eb----------------------------------D
9---B -------------------------------------C# -------------Bb
10--G# ---------------------------------------------A
11--E ---------F
12--C# -----------------------------------------------------C-------D
13--B------------------------------------------------A
14--E
FROM THE ABOVE CHANGES, THESE CHORDS CAN BE HAD.
THE M7 NOTES ARE MISSING, BUT A FINGER PULL ON STRING 1 NOW GETS M7.
CHORD CHANGES
6 ------------ P1P2
6b5---------- P1P2----LR
6s4-----------P1P2----RR
6s4b5 -------P1P2----RRLR
7 -------------P1P2----LV
7#5---------- P1P2----LVLL
7b5 --------- P1P2----LVLR
7s4-----------P1P2----LVRR
7s4b5--------P1P2----LVLRRR
m6 -----------P1P2----RL
m6b5 --------P1P2----RLLR
m7 -----------P1P2----RLLV
m7#5---------P1P2---RLLVLL
m7b5---------P1P2---RLLVLR
M7------------P1P2----LV------FP
M7#5-------- P1P2----LVLL-----FP
M7b5-------- P1P2----LVLR-----FP
M7s4-------- P1P2----LVRR-----FP
M7s4b5 ------P1P2----LVLRRR---FP
mM7 ---------P1P2----LVRL-----FP
mM7#5 -------P1P2----RLLL-----FP
mM7b5--------P1P2----RLLR-----FP
Last edited by ed packard on 23 Sep 2008 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2008 12:24 pm
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What's that you say? What does all that mean? I'd hope if I learned all that, that it wouldn't interfer with my playing ability!! tee~hee!
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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