How To? Remove an individual finger from a changer...

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Help!!! I've got a finger on my steel changer that is binding (1st string) and I am going to remove the finger to find out what the problem is, then fix it. Somewhere I have seen the proceedured to do this, but can't remember where and would like to look it over before I start. Seems like there where pictures and that would help.
Thank you, DS

Martin Weenick · From: Lecanto, FL, USA

Need to know what make and model steel.
_________________
Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Sometimes if it's binding on the axle, carefully spread the fingers apart slightly and put oil down the small space and either let it sit for a while or work it in and that will fix some.

If it's more than that all the fingers probably need removed, cleaned and reoiled to fix it right.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you need to remove the changer finger I would take a wooden dowel just a little smaller than the changer axle and drive the axle out just enough to remove the finger.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

Naturally, you disconnect the pull rod (or rods) from
the finger and as Erv says, drive out the shaft until
the affected finger is free, leaving the dowel in place to keep the other fingers in their proper places. I use a piece of aluminum rod, but I am sure the wood dowel works just fine.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Martin, it's a Rains Spirit, about a year old.

Jack it has been lubbed to death, when I got it, first had to unlube it a bit.

Erv, that is kind of what I had in mind but was looking for concensus.

Clyde, I'm thinking the return spring also, right, but just on that finger.

The Rains has the partually hidden changer shaft, covered by the neck that comes all the way back. Looks like the changer might be lifted up if it was loose...or the neck could be taken off.

I really need a little guidance in that respect.

Thanks for ringing in guys, all suggestions are surely welcome.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Dick,
I'm sure thinking that there must be something else wrong besides the changer finger.
It's VERY unusual for a year old Rains to be experiencing a problem that would require a finger removal.
If I were you, I'd get a light and REAllY check things over good in that area of the guitar.
I'll bet you've got a string end or something stuck down in there.
Please don't start taking things apart until you check things over a little more carefully.
I would also give Gary Carpenter w/Rains a call.
I'm sure he could give you some good advise.
Erv

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Thanks Erv, I've been all over this thing with a light and a fine tooth comb. Can't find a thing amiss except that fact the first string finger is not pulling with the ease it should. Doesn't look like it is operating properly. Everything else works perfectly and the steel sounds and plays great. And..this steel was UPSed and had other issues that I've already corrected. UPS Mad

DS

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Dick,
I'd sure give Gary a call before I'd start tearing in to it, though.

Martin Weenick · From: Lecanto, FL, USA

Dick, you are missing something, removing the finger would be the very last thing I would do. Get out of the changer if you cant see anything and check out the other parts of the pull linkage, cross rods, rod bearings pull rods, etc. Something besides the finger (at least where the axel goes through the finger)is hanging up or binding. Also check your return springs. Start by looseing the string all the way. Martin.
_________________
Several custom steels. NV-112 Boss DD-7

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

I'm with Erv--call Gary Carpenter. You won't get near the help on this thread than just simply going to the man who built your guitar. (817)-560-2277

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Martin, been there done that. Spring is sloppy loose. I've moved the change to another cross rod and lever, with the 1st string nylon tuning nut removed(I raise the 7th and 1st on the same lever) 7th still installed, easy and smooth as butter. Nothing binding in the chain, it's in the finger.

James, I emailed Gary Carpenter a few minutes ago to give him a heads up with all the details before I call tomorrow. I know he is a very busy man and I don't want to take any more of his time then I have to. The email bounced back saying his inbox was full. I'll try that again before I crash for the night.

Thanks for the ping. DS

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Cool Dick, Gary will dial you right in. And you are very right, Gary is as busy as a three legged cat in a litter box. The thing is, YOUR guitar is as important to him as if it was his own child.

I know for a fact, Gary is actually more intrested in service after the sale, than the sale its self. If service after the sale is neglected, the sales go away. Your success is his success. He wants you sitting behind your Rains with a big satisfied grin. Naw, Gary ain't to busy for ya. Cool

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Ok Guys, just heard back from Gary Carpenter, he is as eager as I to get this thing worked out, and we are going to. Thanks for all the support. James you nailed this one. Later, DS

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

changing, removing , swapping fingers is not that big of a deal. It falls into the JUST DO IT category.

years back on my PRO III I swapped E9th fingers which had worn rivets , with unused fingers from the C6th changer. I recall that I swapped the E9th 8 and 4 fingers due to worn , sloppy or sticky rivets.

Remove associated rods..use a wooden dowel to replace the axle and an hour or so later, back in business.

Guys, this isn't a rocket ship.

John Roche · From: England

You may have something jammed between the finger , a string end prehaps...

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I am delighted that Dick called Gary and that Gary is helping him.

On a side note:

Tolerances between the changer finger hole and the axle rod, are close on quality manufactured steel guitars. It is not uncommon for one or more fingers to become tight (or too tight) on some PSG's.

I was at the Emmons' factory once, when Ron Lashley Jr was complaining to Ron Sr. He had a complete brand new changer ass'y in his hand. Even after lubing it, several of the fingers were too tight.

I have no doubt, that changer went into a PSG being built.

Ron Sr was aware of the problem. It is one of those things in manufacturing, where one is between a rock and a hard place. Too loose and the problems are worse. Too tight and some fingers will drag.

Getting them just right takes more than just a lick and a promise. It is an area that NEEDS to be solved in "fine" PSG's of tomorrow.

I completely gutted an 80's Emmons' LeGrande D-10, because MOST of the changer fingers on BOTH necks would NOT return without extreme pressure. Even....with the return springs tightened ALL the way, they would not return without extreme external pressure.

Removing the entire changer ass'y; and cleaning it thoroughly; and then lubing them properly; made EACH finger move smoothly. However, even here, several were suspect in being slightly too close in tolerance. That means that in time, the same exact thing is going to happen again.

There is a phenomenon called "galling", that can happen in close tolerance situtations; and it is very prone when you have an aluminum piece revolving on a steel rod.

I called Bobbe Seymour, and he gave me the name of a lube I purchased at Home Depot. It is the best I have ever seen in this type of situation.

If you have one or more "dragging" changer fingers on your PSG, I know of NO better way to cure it than to remove the changer finger (OR the changer intirely); then remove ALL old oil and/or grease and relubing it with either the manufacturer's suggested lube or the product Bobbe put me on to.

If you have the changer ass'y out, but not taken apart, it sometimes can take a long time for "cleaning" type lubes/products to get rid of the gunk that can accumulate.

Totally soaking of the changer ass'y (in a proper lube) for a week, with frequent moving of every finger back and forth, is not a bad idea IMO.

I sincerely hope Gary can get Dick's guitar in perfect working order. May Jesus help them in this endeavor.

c.
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I agree, always be cautious, but I think it's more about understanding how to take it apart and putting it back together like it was !

Kinda like taking the heads off my Corvette big block and not dropping them on my foot !

I kinda like what Carl says above, if you do indeed decide to take the changer apart, take it ALL apart and clean it like he states.

I was gonna do this with an old Sho-Bud Professional that I bought, but I sold it instead. Thats was easier and required less tools.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Cool Tony. Tearing the changer down, cleaning it and putting it back together is the easy part. Timing and co-ordinating all the pulls is another matter.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Before I pull a changer out of a guitar, I take a piece of paper and write down where all the pull rods are located.
It sure helps when I put it back together again. Very Happy

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Thanks again guys, we're getting it worked out. Carl, that was very enlighteniing, thank you. My friends, I've never built one, but I've un-built a few. Always better to go to the source for the correct fix of unusual quirks. Like my grand-dad said once, when I was pondering over a clock I had just dis-assembled, boy you better get out there and mow that grass. Gittin-um apart aint no problem, gittin-um un-apart could be. Hence the sourse. Prettiest, best sounding steel I've ever sat down to, and you can take that to the bank. DS

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic