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Topic: combination Helms/Mcauliffe tuning. |
Tom Cooper
From: Orlando, Fl
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Posted 26 Aug 2008 12:23 pm
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Has anyone ever tried combining Don Helms E13 with Leon Mcauliffe E13. Since Don rarely played the low strings could you have the G# on top per Helms and the F#-D somewhere on bottom? Seems like you would still have to lose something, the low E or B or something. I love the Leon tuning. Extremely usefull penta scale and bluesy 9th and 7th. But to play Hank stuff a bit tricky. I am learning to slant to get a lot of the Helms stuff but missing the high G#. I cant afford another steel! I love my Gibson Consolette, but almost wish I had a triple. Just wondering if anyone has been down this road. Thanks. TC |
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Edward Meisse
From: Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2008 12:36 pm
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It looks to me like maybe Tom Morrell had. But he had a ten string guitar. How about from hi to lo:
(G#-E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-B)? or the bottom four could just as well be (G#-F#-E-D). What you lose is the bass strings. I NEVER use those anyway. And most others I've heard rarely use them. Do you? _________________ Amor vincit omnia |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2008 3:53 pm
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Don Helms did play the middle E string a lot, and that's missing in Leon's tuning. I'd be lost without it. _________________ -š¯•“š¯•†š¯•“- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Michael Johnstone
From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2008 5:45 pm
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Jerry Byrd also had a take on the E13th - also with roots at both ends but not in the middle.But it was laid out different in the middle amongst the extensions than Leon's. I tried it for a while about 12 years ago and worked up "Estralita" but I could never really stretch out and jam on that thing. It's what I call a restless tuning. It seems like the whole tuning wants to be the V chord of whatever song you're playing and a lot of times you really have to dig in the cracks for the I chord - although when you use the extensions as roots,the subs are endless for all the relative and altered stuff. I've also tried Leon's version and it's got some coolness but the same restlessness. Maybe I missed something or just didn't give that thing a fair shake but I eventually came to the conclusion that Morrell's version seems much more practical. I believe Bobby Black plays the Morrell version or very close to it on a Fender and it's a real player's tuning. |
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Paul Graupp
From: Macon Ga USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2008 10:04 am
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Just as an aside to this topic: I did a show with Don years ago and our discussion came around to Leon. He told me how, as a child, his father would take him to see Leon play steel guitar. It was one of his earliest influences and having been coached from time to time myself by Leon, it meant a lot to me that we had the same tutor.
Regards, Paul |
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Chris Scruggs
From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2008 11:32 am
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It's not that uncommon to have a combination E13. I think Ricky Davis used to use:
G#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
John Betchel had an eight string E13 for his T-8 Fender which I think went like this:
G#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
E
or something close to that.
I would recommend dropping either the low E string or the low G# string and adding the high G# so that your tuning would either be (hi to lo)
G#,E,C#,B,G#,F#,D,G#
or (hi to lo)
G#,E,C#,B,G#,F#,D,E.
This way you can get all of the full rich chords from the Leon tuning and still get the high whine of the Helms tuning. I would use the same string for E and F#. Just pull it up a step when you want the fat Leon sound and drop it when you want the Helms sound. If you are shy to the idea of changing the pitch of a string from one song to the next, don't worry. Just find another string that harmonically corresponds to the note you want and use that as a guide.
For instance, when you want the middle note to be E, get your 12th fret harmonic on that string and tune it to the high E string open. W3en you want F#, play the 7th fret harmonic on the B string and tune the E up to F# using the 5th fret harmonic as a guide.
Or just use an electronic tuner.
Also, if you use two string grabs instead of three string grabs, you can play most all of the helms stuff minus the middle E string so you can leave the F# in place. It's the root anyways and will be suggested by the rest of the chord (and by the bass player). |
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Tom Cooper
From: Orlando, Fl
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Posted 28 Aug 2008 5:39 pm
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Thank to all for the extremely valuable input. I seriously would be lost without it. I ended up using the Bechtel tuning. 3 G#'s aren't really necessary. I love haveing the high G# back and all the Don Helms licks. The bottom is just as Chris said, jazzy Leon. The only thing I miss is the top 4 pentatonic notes of the Leon tuning. But it was so hard to do doublestops. Maybe one day I can get another steel and experiment. I am really enjoying learning this instrument. Every where I play it people love it. I have a loose gig this sat night will be glad to be using the more familiar tuning. Thanks again for all the help. TC |
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Rick Abbott
From: Indiana, USA
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Posted 28 Aug 2008 6:13 pm
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Tom,
It looks like you are embracing the love of the non-pedal steel...and the trade-off. Glad to see that you are so on fire for the Gibson _________________ RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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Tom Cooper
From: Orlando, Fl
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Posted 28 Aug 2008 7:05 pm
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It's my best steel friend! I like playing it better than pedal steel. Austere beauty. I am still trying to get over the steel learning curve. Thank you for the sale. I am having a blast with this thing. I play out with it almost every week. Got a Delta Blues amp coming next week. Trying to get that old tyme sound. Hope your doing ok with your crossover project. Nice to talk to you on the forum! This is the coolest instrument of all time, period. Thanks again to all, TC |
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John Bechtel
From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 30 Aug 2008 2:58 pm
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On 8-str. I used this E9/13: Hiā€“Lo
G#~E~C#~B~G#~F#~D~E and now, on 10-str. I use: Hiā€“Lo
G#~E~C#~B~G#~F#~E~D~B~E
My final opinion about the two is that the 8-str. version has a richer sound, but; the 10-str. version contains the best of two worlds and is more player-friendly! It's a give and take proposition! _________________ <marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Tom Cooper
From: Orlando, Fl
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Posted 31 Aug 2008 9:17 am
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Hey guys! Got to test the waters with the Bechtel/Morrell/Scruggs tuning last night. It served me very well indeed. I got to use the bottom 7/9th sounds during the slow bluesy numbers, and the high,honkin' tough Don Helms licks on the rave-up country songs. I also can simulate some pedal steel intros and licks here and there. A while back it was suggested to me on another threat to use a hybrid tuning like this but I must not have been paying attention. Thanks to everyone for helping me bring the steel guitar back in Central Florida. It has become a mission of sorts now. I still have not had any younger person really seek to become a steeler. I would also like you, love to help people get into steel, esp non pedal. Nobody is really biting. I've got more gigs than I can do, but one guy playing steel is a little sad. Then again I do feel special being a steel player. Maybe too many of us would ruin that. Oh well, that's just the way it is. I'm gonna get somebody playing this damn thing before I go to steel guitar heaven. Thanks to all for the help, esp Chris Scruggs. Your posts are incredible helpfull. I love your style and take on music.
Thanks again, TC |
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