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Topic: Seeking LOTS of Emmons PSG advice... |
Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 12:52 pm |
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I was offered the instrument described below. I'd love anyone's opinion of the instrument, the offer, etc. What questions I should ask. etc. I am supposed to receive pics of the instrument soon.
Thanks so much,
Johnne Lee
"I have an S-10 Emmons with case. Green Lacquer, very old but plays and sounds great. Pro model w/ 5 knees and 4 floor pedals. Aluminum neck. All original. $2500
I don't know the age, but I'm sure it is from the late 60's. Good year for Emmons.
Standard Emmons set up. E-9 Nashville. Aluminum neck, 5 knees, 4 floor pedals. I can set it up any way you like.
Green lacquer, shows age with checking. Mechanics are mint. No tuning problems. Great pick up, original single coil. Fabulous sound. Case has one ding, but in good shape."
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Ron !
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 1:16 pm
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My advice?
Post some pictures.There's a lot of P/P guru's on this forum that can help you out a lot more then I can.
Ron |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 1:21 pm
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| Ron Steenwijk wrote: |
My advice?
Post some pictures.There's a lot of P/P guru's on this forum that can help you out a lot more then I can.
Ron |
Thanks, Ron! I plan to do that as soon as the seller emails them to me!
I searched/read every Emmons post on the Forum that I could find. So far, it seems as though a 60-ish PP may be a pain to adjust and they may also be limited in set-uo.
But, I'll await the experts to chime in.
Thanks again,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 2:20 pm Emmons S-10
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Hi Johnne Lee,
Please check your e-mail.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Brian Kurlychek
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 2:52 pm
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My feeling is that if you are going to spend $2500 on a steel, and it is going to be your first steel, then I would recommend buying a new one. Save the old stuff for when you are familiar with the steel and with playing.
If you don't know enough to know about what you are buying you have to trust the person who is selling it to you. I don't know about you but 2500 is alot to spend.
If you are dead set on a PP or older one then I guess go for it.
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We live to play another day. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 3:20 pm
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As far as I know, vertical knee levers didn't come along until the 1970's. I'd be suspicious of any guitar "from the late 60's" that had 5 knee levers.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 3:27 pm Thanks, Guys!!!!!
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Lynn, Thanks much! I'll reply to your email as soon as I have a moment.
b0b,
You are especially invaluable to the PSG Newbie, in fact, to the entire PSG community! Thanks!!!
Brian,
The only thing I am dead set on is an affordable PSG (meaning relative value, worth the asking price, etc.) The description I posted was sent to me in an unsolicited email. If the instrument I was offered turns out to be really, really special I might make the seller a reasonable offer. I'm not paying $2500 for a PSG because of the name on the side, or because it is a P/P mechanism, or because it holds some mystical emotional content for some PSG players.
Honestly, I've pretty much given up on finding an affordable PSG via the SGF or any of the usual sources. Folks seem to be a little proud of the 6 to 10 PSGs they own - at least for my budget. There are 25 thousand senior citizens within a 10 mile radius of me. I am posting flyers at the usual haunts. I hope something will turn up.
Thanks for the guidance.
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Brian Kurlychek
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 3:59 pm
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Affordable is relevant only to the buyer. It has nothing to do with the value of an item.
Lets say I need an affordable car. Well, A Ferrari might be affordable to someone like Bill Gates. But what is affordable to me? I don't know. maybe a Kia.
Spend the most you can on a good guitar and you will be happy.
If you are concerned about affordibility, then I wouldn't even consider a Push Pull. They are expensive playable collector's items that just keep going up in value. They are not made any more. You most likely won't find one at a bargain, unless the person doesn't know what they are selling.
Alot of times the difference between used and new is just a few hundred bucks. At that rate, you might as well buy new.
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We live to play another day. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 4:50 pm Nothing is 'collectible'... It is a created mindset!!!
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| Brian Kurlychek wrote: |
They are expensive playable collector's items that just keep going up in value.
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Hey Brian,
The value of an instrument, and whether or not it is affordable, is based on the lunacy of the buyers. P/Ps (or any musical instrument) have no real, specific value except in the minds of folks who assign them some mystical magic that does not exist.
As I mentioned in an earlier post on another topic...
The internet is the worse thing that has happened to many segments of life. The lunacy of folks with more money than sense has made what was an ordinary PSG 30s ago into something it is not. I've heard good P/Ps and I've heard bad P/Ps. The player makes the difference not the instrument. Good players sound good no matter what they are playing!!!
I told you before I am not looking for a P/P. I would not pay even remotely what I've seen folks on this Forum pay for some of these old guitars. Lunacy! And people wonder why more young folks don't get involved in PSG!
I guess they just have more sense!
I've lurked around this Forum since about '99 and I've been a member since 2000. I just rarely posted. I've been a life long hobby musician and I know how musicians are. They have GAS! Gear Acquisition Syndrome. They keep buying and buying. They keep spending more and more in the hopes that it will improve there playing when they have that 'magic' instrument! I'm always amazed!!!!
I do appreciate your guidance, though!
Thanks,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 4:51 pm
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| i'd be suspect of any unsolicited salesmanship...need pictures at least and that price is top collector price for a pristine single neck. should be much better deals for your first decent pedal steel out there. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 5:44 pm
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Post some pics..... for 2500 bux, it should be in really great shape. Most of the lacquer 3X4 or 3X5 S10s that I have seen are from early 70's on.
Good Luck! |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:12 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| i'd be suspect of any unsolicited salesmanship...need pictures at least and that price is top collector price for a pristine single neck. should be much better deals for your first decent pedal steel out there. |
Thanks so much for the input, Chris. This kind of comment is invaluable to someone like me who has been away form PSG since this instrument was nearly new! ; -]
I will post pics when the seller sends them to me!
I'm pretty good with a computer and I was able to locate someone with the same name and approximate age. That person was legit, anyway!
I'd really rather have a decent, used U 12, but I haven't found one I can afford yet!
Thanks again,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:13 pm I will Mike...
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| mike nolan wrote: |
Post some pics..... for 2500 bux, it should be in really great shape. Most of the lacquer 3X4 or 3X5 S10s that I have seen are from early 70's on.
Good Luck! |
Thanks, Mike! I'll post the pics as soon as I get them. Thanks so much for the background info it will be invaluable in making my decision.
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:19 pm
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| For 2500 you could probably buy a brand new Carter SD10 or S12 I'm thinking !!! |
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Brian Kurlychek
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2008 6:43 pm Re: Nothing is 'collectible'... It is a created mindset!!!
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Don't forget, you not only have to buy the PSG, but you also have to buy the accoutraments.
Average Standard Cost to a newcomer:
PSG - 2400.00
Volume Pedal Goodrich $164.00 (add another 100.00 for a hilton)
Pedal bracket $30.00
Stringwinder - 2.00
Picks - 4.00
Dunlop 920 Steel slide - 29.00
Extra set of SIT steel guitar strings -10.00
George L Cables (3ft,9ft)- around 40.00
Winnie Winston Pedal Steel guitar book- 21.95
Amp - $????
_________________
We live to play another day. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 7:11 am Yer' oh so right, of course!!!
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| Paddy Long wrote: |
| For 2500 you could probably buy a brand new Carter SD10 or S12 I'm thinking !!! |
Thanks, Paddy! Yeah, I wouldn't pay what the guy is asking. I'd planned to make him my best offer and see what happens.
Thanks again!
Johnne Lee 
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 8:32 am You forgot the boots and hat... ; -]
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| Brian Kurlychek wrote: |
| Don't forget, you not only have to buy the PSG, but you also have to buy the accoutraments. |
Hey Brian,
Thanks for the good information! I appreciate the support and encouragement. I've been a hobby musician for decades and (like everyone else) I've collected a bit of stuff. (Much of which could be found in an old pawn shop, honestly.) And since I'm too old to still be influenced by what others use (and too poor to waste the $$$) I'll just have to get by with what I have.
Boss Volume Pedal (I've never needed to nail it down in the past so I'll skip the bracket.)
I don't need a string-winder - never used one on any of the acoustic 12 strings I've owned). I consider string-changin' a labor of love that makes me take a very close look at my instrument from top to bottom.)
I use 3 Alaska fingerpicks, and alternate between a Fred Kelly and ACRI thumbpick, depending (I keep them in an Altoids box).
I have several old tone bars (one of them will have to be OK).
If I end up with a 10 I'll use John Pearse strings (I've used them for ages on both acoustic and electric). I'd love a U12, though so a set of SIT Powerwounds will be for it (Though I've never used SIT before). I think they are $7.00 on-line.
I have more cables than you can shake a stick at (some are just average, but I have a couple of pretty decent ones.) I really should get rid of some of this rat's nest. ; -]
I do read music well enough to get by (I can't read at full tempo though), but I don't know from tablature. I play be ear anyway so I won't need Winnie's book. (Although an old friend failed to teach me to read tablature from it many, many moons ago.) Not to mention that I am far more inclined just to listen and watch others play and steel (sic) their licks. With the myriad on-line videos I can't believe anyone needs books any longer.
I've owned an Evans for 5 or 6 years (bought it used from a physician friend of mine for $300 - he just had "GAS"), but since I play in "Madison Square Bedroom" most of the time I'll use my old standby tube amp - great clean, monster headroom but HEAVY).
Thanks again for the support and encouragement!!
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 9:55 am
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johnne..you sound intelligent enough to figure most of this out by yourself...however, don't be shy of learning how to follow some simple tab..it's really easy..and can get you into some great sounds and concepts effortlessly.
also.....get a stringwinder!!!! |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 11:28 am I appreciate the kind words...
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| chris ivey wrote: |
johnne..you sound intelligent enough to figure most of this out by yourself...however, don't be shy of learning how to follow some simple tab..it's really easy..and can get you into some great sounds and concepts effortlessly.
also.....get a stringwinder!!!! |
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the kind words AND the encouragement! I guess I really should figure out what 'standard' PSG tab looks like. I've just been lazy!
Thanks,
Johnne Lee
PS - NO stringwinders!!!! 
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Joe Stoebenau
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 3:32 pm
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| IMO, the best bang for the buck is an MSA Classic D10. For little more than $1000 you can have a real good instrument. Not as pretty as some others but plays just as good. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2008 4:19 pm I wish I could find one...
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| Joe Stoebenau wrote: |
| IMO, the best bang for the buck is an MSA Classic D10. For little more than $1000 you can have a real good instrument. Not as pretty as some others but plays just as good. |
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the information. I've heard lots of good things about the MSA Classic. If I could find one in good shape around a Grand I'd probably buy it.
Thus far every PSG I've heard of - no matter the Name or Year - has been a lot more than a Grand!
I'll keep my out eye for a Classic and see what turns up.
Thanks again,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Randy Gilliam
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2008 6:59 am Prices
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Johnny Which Would You rather Have 1965 PP Emmons only 100 or so Built For $5000.00 or a 1965 Black Fender Stratocaster $10000.00 To $13000.00 ? I Dont Like High Prices Either But To Me The 6 Strings Are The One Overpriced,Just My Opinion Thanks Randy.  |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2008 8:09 am Economies of scale, Pardner!!!!
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| Randy Gilliam wrote: |
| Johnny Which Would You rather Have 1965 PP Emmons only 100 or so Built For $5000.00 or a 1965 Black Fender Stratocaster $10000.00 To $13000.00 ? I Dont Like High Prices Either But To Me The 6 Strings Are The One Overpriced,Just My Opinion Thanks Randy. |
Hi Randy,
I wouldn't have either, actually!!!! There are FAR better instruments available for FAR less $$$. Both of the quoted prices (NOT values) just illustrate that some folks have greater disposable income than cognitive function. IMHO.
Both PSGs and regular guitars of a certain brand and a certain vintage are way overpriced!
However, the price difference is just an economy of scale issue primarily based on sociology. There are more folks who play regular guitar and, therefore, there are more people with a larger pool of $$$ interested in the Black '65 Strat.
Additonally, there is a significant difference in the comparative social relevance of the 2 instruments. Many, and probably most, regular guitar collectors can't play a lick (and they wouldn't recognize a good musical instrument if it bit them on the A##)! But, nearly every "Baby Boomer" on the planet knows that James Marshall/Johnny Allen/Jimi Hendrix played a '65 Strat! Many of them also know who hugs "Blackie".
For the most part, no one ever heard of Jerry Byrd, let alone Shot Jackson or Buddy Emmons!!!
The "Boomers" are far and away the largest and richest Generation in world history. And, the much smaller, subsequent generations will have relatively MUCH less disposable income. (Uh,...lets see...Why is the American Capitalist targeting China?)
When the "Boomers" die off none of these instruments will be worth a nickle, except maybe those instruments that have been owned and played by someone truly, truly memorable. But, the '65 Strat will always fetch an ever larger relatively comparative price. The PSG is becoming even less socially relevant as the 'standard' country music ensemble emphasizes the PSG less and less.
Sad state of affairs, huh? : -{
YMMV ; -]
No personal offense meant, Pardner!
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2008 3:07 pm
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Johnne Lee, It's always a pleasure to have a dialog with you.
You're on the right track with your hunt for a steel guitar. Remember, supply and demand set the prices of products and this gas crunch is in the mix so I'm thinking it may be a good time to buy. It may get better... who knows?
These steel guitar contraptions can be fun or can be a major pain. Stay away from that green push/pull. Chris was right when he said that's top dollar, b0b was right about it not being "stock" and besides that, this seller seems real shakey.
RE: Cost of musical instruments...
Musical instruments are strange things. They make nobody happy but the owner. A professional musician may be great on his instrument and giggin' all the time, but he may not be as happy as the guy who's totally supercharged because (even though his band rehearses all year), they only get to play one gig a year...and that may be for free. Money can't buy that kind of excitement. Think about it. It's exciting to perform, fun to learn songs and hang with your buddies. It may also be a relaxing de-stresser, and it is probably safer than climbing Mt. Everest.... Therefore, the cost of the instrument is just collateral damage at this point of the game.  |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2008 4:48 pm
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| Danny Bates wrote: |
Johnne Lee, It's always a pleasure to have a dialog with you.
...the cost of the instrument is just collateral damage at this point of the game. |
Thanks for your kind words, Danny, and the encouragement. I do appreciate it.
BTW, Dayna contacted me off-Forum to discuss the "Alphabet Soup" behaviors a bit. Geez, what a mess for that band, huh?
The guy who offered me the '60s, green P/P has not gotten back to me and it has been several days. Maybe he reads the Forum! ; -}
Yer' right, of course, about the $$$! We've all probably spent a fortune over the years. I had a beautiful D-18 that was lost (stolen?), and couple of nice Strats and a Dobro that I let get away. Not to mention a couple of laps and a Fender Console. Right now, I've got a couple of custom built banjos, and a just magnificent family heirloom - my Dad's '52/54/60 Tele. Not to mention several Chromatic Harmonicas, a bunch of blues harps and two amps! Scary!!!!
I've looked at every PSG manufacturers site and it looks like the only one I could justify the $$$ is a BSG S-10 although the Rayline is right there also. I have not been able to find the price of the Pedalmasters yet.
I guess I may end up with a very basic (used) S-10 which will be more than good enough.
I wish I could make it to the convention this next week. I haven't been for 15 years. I will probably make the PSGAs get-together in November with luck.
Very good to hear from you, Danny!
Thanks again,
Johnne Lee
_________________
Justice S10-Pro 5x4 C6
Roland Cube 80GX
Wonderful Wife
"In the course of a long life a wise man will be prepared to abandon his baggage several times." |
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