New Student Needs some Experienced Advice Please....

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

I haven't started my lessons as yet. I am in the process of purchasing my pedal steel. Started out thinking I'd get the Carter Starter ($800). Then saw the S10-DB (Carter New $2400). My concerns are is the Carter Starter able to perform or is it so wobbly or cheaply made that it will not provide a stable foundation. Could there be other problems I'm not aware of with the Carter Starter? Follow-up question is the single with double body looks to be much better relating to body mechanics--less stress to the wrists? Would you please send me your opinions regarding the Carter Starter vs. the professional double body. Should I just invest the money in quality now vs. starting with CStarter and possibly buying professional later???

Thank you, Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Jan, if you are looking for the best guitar for the money, I would consider the BMI S-10 that is listed in Buy and Sell. A pro quality guitar, for a lot less then a new Carter, and not too much more then the Carter Starter. Good luck.

Michael Pierce · From: Madison, CT

Jan, I've owned two Carter Starters, one when I began taking lessons and one I purchased a couple of years later when I decided to take some follow-up lessons. They're good for seeing if you're interested in pedal steel -- you can generally sell them once you're ready to move on. And, if you decide you like pedal steel, you probably will want to move on. My biggest issue with them was the amount of travel required on some of knee levers (the LKR, if I recall). It was a bit uncomfortable playing it. They sound pretty good though.

There is a really nice S-10 pro carter for sale on the Forum currently (although the seller looks to prefer a local (Texas) buyer). Worth checking out.

Ron Page · From: Penn Yan, NY USA

Your best bet would be to travel to Scotty's International Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis in a couple weeks and try them all.

The only reason I can see for going with a student model is money. If your budget can handle that $2400 then there are plenty of great steels to be had. One thing to consider is resale value, and you'll find the pro-line guitars, when well kept, retain their value better than any student model. This will be to your benefit should you decided to either give it up or trade it up. Wink

I like the single on double frame, and that style has become increasingly popular nowadays, but you don't want to rely on the pad as an arm rest while playing.

Best of luck to you.
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HagFan
Emmons Lashley LeGrande II

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

Thank you! I'm checking into both types. I appreciate all the advice you all can provide. Smile

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Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

You don't need a Ferrari to take your drivers test. Unless you're sure you will want to stick to PSG for the long haul (years and years and years!) then a good quality starter model from Carter, GFI, etc. will do you just fine for at least a year or two.

As an analogy, in the 6-string world if you're just starting out you can get a plywood top Yamaha with decent action for $500 to learn on and later, plunk down $5000 for that special Martin.

Do NOT buy a used pro model unless it is from a reputable dealer who specializes in pedal steel. Make certain you explain your beginner status to the dealer. Used guitars can have all sort of mechanical issues and weird setups that will do nothing but harm to a beginning student.

All the above IMHO!
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Primitive Utility Steel

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i don't agree....many great deals can be found on used pro models for a lot less than a 'dealer' is going to give you. just make sure you take along a steel player friend with a brain and common sense...because, yes, used steels can be weird.
check function before you buy.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

This question gets asked alot here...and with good reason.
You can do a search for "carter starter" in the "steel players" and the "pedal steel" sections of the forum and weed your way thru the threads, some relevant to this discussion, some not.
Here is a relevant thread from not long ago.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=137523&highlight=carter+starter

The carter people read and post on these boards. They are nice people, the starter is highly regarded by many, and their pro models are very highly regarded by almost everyone.
Some may be reluctant to post criticism of the starter for that reason. Others are obviously not afraid to say what they think both positive and negative. You will get conflicting opinions on the starter (with the majority being very positive towards it)

Best of luck with your choice!

Charles Curtis · Posted 14 Aug 2008 11:29 am

Jan, I've been fooling aroung with psg for over 40 years; love 'em. I have two Emmons D-10s and one GFI-S-10. I bought the GFI S-10 because it's light. I had never played one before, unfortunately, so after playing a few minutes I noticed my right shoulder wasn't used to the stress. But I'm in my seventies, although in pretty good shape, if I had it to do over, I would have bought a D-10. I like the Emmons standard set up, Es on the left, etc. I believe that a lot of tablature is written this way; hey, if it's good enough for Buddy Emmons, it's good enough for me. I like dealing with a dealer myself or manufacturer (Emmons). There are dealers listed here on the Forum, in fact I believe some are listed with Scotty, if I'm wrong someone please correct me. If you decide to get a second hand psg, usually large dealers have some in stock; Bobbe, Billy Coopers Music, or Frenchy, I think that he is in New Mexico. Also you can usually get them to set the pedal set up for you that you want. I use 25" legs, 'cause I'm short so that's another issue. Good luck.

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

Twayn, I had to grin at your reply! Thanks for the comparison to Ferrari! Good one![/quote]
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Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

Rick Hulett · From: Hood River, OR

I bought a Carter Starter and played it for a month before upgrading. In one sense, you could say that I wasted $500 (used), but if I hadn't taken that month to see first of all if I really wanted to do it, but more important to learn some of what's important to me, I probably would have spent a bunch of money on something that might not end being what I needed. The Carter Starter is a good way to start playing while you try and figure out whether you want an S10, an SD10, a D10, old, new, push, pull, muffler bearings etc. It can get pretty confusing. Although I haven't sold my Starter yet, I plan to and I'm pretty sure I'll get what I paid for it so it's really no loss.
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Derby D10, Hilton, Peavey 112

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

Howdy Rick, You've hit the nail on the head! I'm getting back with my teacher as soon as I've coordinated all this info. It looks like dedicated musicians seems to have SEVERAL PSG's, of course. But, I believe the first is crucial when meeting the challenge to play with an instrument that will be less 'needy'! I want to be able to tune and retune the instrument with more ease as a novice.

I wanted a challenge and I sure got one. This is something I want to do and develop my own unique style (if possible) and just help out if needed locally. But, when I'm ready to leave it all behind, play full time. Although, Tucson is my home base and always will be for me.
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Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

There's no way I'd advise getting a starter guitar. Get a used pro model from someone with a good rep here on the Forum. Doesn't have to be a dealer. If you give up on it, you'll be able to get your money back. Or at least very close. If you advance fairly rapidly, you'll be frustrated early on by a beginner's guitar. I personally dislike SD-10s. I see no good reason for a pad. But then I'm coming from a U-12 background. Although all I play now is my 74 Shobud S-10, 3&6.

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I agree with John 100%. Find one that appeals to you. If you are doing "country", all you need is a 10 string, with 3 pedals, and 4 knee levers, tuned E9. Any well known brand, that is above the starter class, will afford you a lifetime of music. Stay away from the ones that CANNOT be changed, to fit your desires in the future. My 2 cents worth is how well can you learn on a very inexpensive 6 string regular guitar? Most you can't even finger chords on them. And my opinion is, the lighter the guitar weighs, the more it dances around when you move and hit the knee levers. Good luck in your choice.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Barry Westerfield · From: Myrtle Beach, SC

My Experience has been......I tried a "starter" guitar only to get frustrated in learning...would not stay in tune...was not sound in stability...etc etc etc.....start out with a known well built guitar.not real expensive...it helps when you arrive somewhere for lessons and playing in a band.....less is better then add-on too your existing guitar or purchase another one...it gets expensive.but well worth to start with good quality equipment....just some advice i received along time ago from Mr.Jeff Newman

Brick Spieth · From: San Jose, California, USA

Jan, I am all of two months ahead of you on the PSG path. I was able to borrow a Carter Starter for a month. That month was all I needed to decide I wanted something better. If I could not afford better, the Starter would have been fine for a while. It sounded good and the pedals worked fine. The knee levers left something to be desired, but as I stated in an earlier thread, a Carter Starter is a whole lot better than no PSG.

Not knowing anyone who could help me with a used purchase, I decided to buy a Stage One brand new from Doug Earnest. They are $950, and address all the Starter's short comings. I did not want or need playability issues in my first guitar, and with a 3x5 Emmons setup, this guitar could be sufficient for several years. I was also able to buy a Strobo Flip tuner and a Goodrich pedal, and have what seems to me to be an ideal beginner's setup.

That being said, I'm looking toward my next guitar already, not from any problem with the Stage One, but due to my gear junkie leanings. This would have happened with any guitar I would have purchased.

If your teacher is willing to help,and you can afford it, I'd buy the best used guitar you can. If you buy new, be sure you are going to stick with it. This is another reason to buy a student instrument or a popular used steel. You can minimize financial loss if you don't stick with it. If you find you do, you can order up whatever you can afford in whatever color or configuration you would like and be happy forever or until some laquer beauty shows up for sale.

The most important thing is to get something and get playing, and practice like the dickens, cause whatever life you have in front of you won't be enough to get as good as you want to get. The reality is always going to be that a great player can make the cheapest guitar sound wonderful, but if you can't play, no steel on Earth will make you sound good.

Ben Edmonds · From: Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA

I started on a starter and within 6 months upgraded. The starter from what I remember was pretty cool but I knew nothing so the fact that it was new and properly set up for 700 was great. It was in tune all around and ready to play, if I had to fuss with a badly maintained used steel at the time I would not know where to begin and all I wanted to do was play the thing. ( of course later I messed with it and learned the fine art of what not to do with the mechanics of a steel) BUT I learned plenty from that too because you cant make too many changes to that thing.
That guitar was a means to an end and I sold it on ebay for 50 bucks less than I paid for it, I figured I rented a steel for 6 months for 50 bucks and that was good math. I knew I had the bug so then I invested a little bit more in a sho bud that I still own and love.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=138980

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

Well, my search is finally over! I made a deal with a friend of my teacher's yesterday (Sunday, 8/17). I will soon have a Fessenden SD10 (small pad), 3/5 Emmons Setup!

I am so excited now that I can soon get down to some serious practice and hair pulling!!!

I can't thank everyone properly for the incredible advice you all put out there publicly and privately. I feel I have made some extremely valuable friends in the PSG community and won't let you down. I'll do my best so that some day (probably several months from now!) I can say that I'm a PSG Player and sit beside you (or at least right behind you) (Big Grin!)

I understand there is a gathering in Phoenix in January and I plan on attending. I hope to see you all, so please look me up and keep in contact.

Sincerely, Ranger Jan, Tucson, AZ
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Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

There is indeed, Jan. Check out www.southweststeelguitar.com for details.

Rick Hulett · From: Hood River, OR

Congratulations!!! How about a picture?
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Derby D10, Hilton, Peavey 112

Jan Elizabeth Phibbons · From: Arizona, USA

You bet! I won't have it for a few weeks, I'm working a little harder to make up for the price - its worth it! I will show it off like any proud mommie! Thanks!
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Jan Elizabeth, Tucson, AZ

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

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