And In this Corner.... My new power cable.

Matthew Carlin · From: Lake County, IL.

I'm a big fan of the work Mike at Essential Sound does. I couldn't believe the way the amp responded to touch and the clarity I gained after switching to his power cable. I was really floored, any one in the chicago land area who wants to try one is welcome to stop by and A.B. their own amp.

They just released a real affordable version for amps.

http://essentialsound.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ES&Product_Code=MCord_Cord&Category_Code=PRO

Matt
_________________
"Just tryin to make some music in the money business"

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Matthew, I'm sure those are nice cables. Did you hear about the company called Virtual Dynamics?

They were charging people $300 for "audiophile cables" made from $15 worth of parts. Here's an article...

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2008/03/300_audiophile_grade_power_cable_is_really_worth_15-2.html

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Having worked in electronics all my working career. including a stint as an amp tech in Nashville, I can't get excited about any of the high priced, "Hospital Grade" or "Audiophile" type cables.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

http://essentialsound.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ES&Product_Code=Essence_Cord&Category_Code=REF

For $800, I could bribe 16 drunks $50 each to tell me how great I sound, and help the whole local economy. This is a joke, right? They just think it's funny to trick people....

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

(I have to remind myself to be "nice", here.)

I can't believe people are still falling for this crap!

(Yes, that was "nice".) Rolling Eyes

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

As an experienced electrical engineer I can't see any reason that zip cord wouldn't be just as good as any fancy power cable. Even if I were to treat the power cord as a transmission line and start looking at skin effect, reflections, characteristic impedance, transient response and their effect on the audio amp, I just can't see any theoretical justification behind this whole fancy power cord thing.

Look at it this way. You have miles of power lines, transformers, insulators, varistors etc. followed by single conductor house wiring fed through run of the mill $2.00 house receptacles and your going to insert some high tech power cable onto that then have it followed by the amps internal power wiring (not high tech at all). It just defies common sense to think this power cable can improve the power when it's but a small part of the power chain. Certainly it could have ferrite beads or cores for RF suppression, or some sort of surge suppression, but exactly how is it improving the sound of the amp?

Greg

Matthew Carlin · From: Lake County, IL.

YEP..

I said the exact same thing, how can this be any different than over priced crap.

Then I tried one. Then I made other musicians try them because I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy.

Call ESP tell them you don't believe and you think its "Crap".
Mike won't even get mad, he is one of the most genuine people you will ever meet. He loves talking about his gear.
_________________
"Just tryin to make some music in the money business"

Larry Scott · From: Virginia, USA

you boys play nice Winking

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Just checked the link. Is that correct, $130+$2.50 shipping. I'm coming out of retirement. Looks to be the same hook up as my Dell and NV112, have they discovered a new and formally unused technology. I admit it is pretty, but not that pretty. Hummm, have they installed ferrit beads or donuts down the entire length of the cable. Stranger things, I guess, but hype does sell and we're talking about it.

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Yeah, I was always very skeptical about this whole power cable thing. The huge audio-phool pricing and marketing too. It never made any sense to me why one power cable would make a difference over another.

But I caved in once just to give it a try. No, I didn't blow any big money on them, but I did build a few based on some popular expensive designs. The key was mainly the topology. The design consists of a truly shielded wire. The AC rides on a spiral pair up the middle, and then there's a shield. Then the green, ground wire runs up the outside of the shield. This ground wire is connected at both ends. The shield is only connected at the wall plug end.

Now I'm not real good on the theory here, and I'm not real defensive on the "why" either. Maybe by having the power wires shielded from the rest of the system, this reduces radiation of the AC, and any garbage that may be riding on the AC power line. Maybe by helping reduce capacitive coupling. Maybe it also reduces the radiation inducing its way into the ground wire which is likely connected to the metal chassis of your piece of equipment. Also, if the gauge of the power wire is hefty, this means less resistance.

So I don't know the real whys about this phenomenon. But I can tell you that from some pretty good, sometimes blind tests in a mastering studio, it is audibly noticeable. Digital converters, CD players, and power amps all seem to benefit a bit with better power cords. Better detail, more refined image of the individual instruments, and all the other common audio adjectives. Just better.

But I know that I can make a shielded "balanced" power cord for under $50. Even way cheaper if I score some good shielded cable at a good price. It's the audiophile marketing world that has people so pissed off at the idea. Taking $40 in parts and marketing it for $600 as some magic thing. It's absolutely insulting at times, but the suckers who want to spend $600 for a power cord are welcome to blow their money that way. Maybe it makes them feel better about their $50,000+ stereo system.

Honestly, I never once have taken my custom power cords out to a gig for my steel rig. But after this discussion, I think I'll have to go and see if I can hear any improvements in my steel rig.

Here's a great webpage that explains the topology of 3 different types of power cords, and how to make them. One is best for digital stuff. One is best for power amps, and the last is best for non-grounded digital gear. Easy to make.

http://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html

Check out this site by the guy who makes Standel amps. He SWEARS by good power cords.

http://www.requisiteaudio.com/products/cables/power/northamerica.html

And look for this cable if you want to build some. It's pricey, so only make it as long as you need.

Belden 83802

Brad

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Couple of questions that come to mind:

1. Where are the published, peer-reviewed studies? It would be an enormous benefit to the makers of these things in overcoming skepticism expanding the market. Assuming the claims are true.

2. Why the longer lengths? It appears that the magic happens by inserting the cord as the last element of the long power distribution chain. The 2' model is the least expensive, so I would use a cheap extension cord with the 2' magic cord on the end.

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Abstract
The invention provides a compact, circular, flexible, and shielded twin-axial, multi-stranded power cable for transferring current instantaneously and with uniform density substantially free from phase delays at 60 Hz. between a high current power amplifier and a standard three-hole 112 volt AC outlet achieving a pure and powerful bass response and clear, brilliant noise-free highs. The cable has two bundles of five insulated conductors helically and symmetrically wrapped around a dielectric center. The gauge of each conductor and total cross-sectional area of the bundled conductors are predetermined to avoid internal inductance and phase delay effects while providing high current instantaneously and uniformly in high-end audio power applications. In between the bundles are located ground wires which run the length of the cable. The bundles and ground wires are spirally twisted around each other for structural integrity and for a generally round cross-sectional shape. A thin polypropylene filler surrounds this spiral twist. A non-insulated drain wire and an aluminum foil shield are wrapped around the shielded cable. The cable of the present invention unexpectedly renders benefits in high-end audio applications even though it does not operate within the signal path of the system.

Patent number: 5110999
Filing date: Dec 4, 1990
Issue date: May 5, 1992
Inventor: Todd Barbera

Rolling Eyes

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Frankly I don't think the power cord is usually the weakest link in the chain. As we say on the golf course "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian." (apologies to the indigenous and the politically correct)

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

There are the claims, but there is no legitimate scientific comparison and data. I can make a claim but until it's proven or disproven it's just a claim.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Thanks for the information Lynn. Their own patent data shows the big hole in their thinking. Put a super low inductance, non-phasing cable inline with a mile of utility cable, 100' of house wiring and the very ordinary amp power wiring and you've got: a chunk of amazing power cable sandwiched between two noisy and somewhat inductive run of the mill wiring systems and it's transparent. Taking that out and replacing it with cheap lamp cord, say 6' of it, and it would also be very transparent.

I don't doubt that the power cable in question is high quality, low inductance and phase coherent. I do believe that the systems that feed it and that it feeds will totally swamp the effects of this power cable.

VooDoo engineering.

Greg

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Greg, I agree. When I read the patent I formed this image of patent attorneys at a convention having a big laugh. Given the patent attorneys I've known personally that's probably unlikely... Very Happy

I do know from first-hand experience that things get patented that shouldn't, so the existence of a patent does not add any credibility to the claims, at all.

Tommy R. Butler · From: Nashville, Tennessee

I agree with Brad.. I had two nashville 112's with burr brown chips. I replaced the power chord on one of the 112's with a hi-grade chord and it did actually sound better than the other. I didnt pay a dime for the power chord, it just showed up from somewhere??

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

So, let's read the patent...

(I've highlighted what I feel are the significant portions.)

"The number of strands is determined, in order to carry the magnatude of current called for in high-end equipment, to be the minimum required for applications involving a high current stereo amplifier, typically capable of drawing about 20 amperes and providing about 1,000 watts per channel into an 8 ohm load."

Does that sound like your rig?

Okay, let's keep going...

"While a person of ordinary skill in the art might question the sonic effect to be derived from a cord which lies outside the signal path and which, moreover, is intended to transfer current at one frequency (60-Hz), there are indeed insignificant sonic problems which the present invention unexpectedly redresses."

Golly! Right there in the patent, they admit the "problems" they're trying to correct are "insignificant". Mr. Green

I'm with Greg on this. At both ends of this "fancy cable" are quite ordinary wire. The power supply of an amp turns the incoming AC (whether it's in phase or slightly out-of-phase) into DC. THAT'S what the amp sees! No phases and no frequencies.

Even if the conductors in this cable are equivilent to 10 ga. wire, then they're still limited in performance by the 12 ga. or 14 ga. wire going to the receptacle, and the 16 ga-18 ga. wire in the amp.

Speaker wires? Yeah, they can make a difference (to an audiophile, or in a studio), but probably not to us. We're musicians, and we ALL use stuff that would make any "respectable" audiophile absolutely cringe with disgust. True audiophiles might spend a minimum of $25,000 on an amp, $15,000 on speakers, and about $5,000 for a turntable to play RECORDS!!! (And yes, they'd probably spring for the $900 speaker wires.)

Yes, beside those kinds of things, even our best "boutique" tube amps and sacred JBL's are pure junk.

Smoke and mirrors. Snake oil. Wanna buy a bridge? Muttering

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Frequency transmission, noise, distortion, phase relations are all measurable, quantifiable data - so show me the data! "It sounds better..." - well of course it does, you just spent $800 on a power cord - it better sound better. If I hear one more person say "detailed sound", "bloom", "spank", "clarity" I'm gonna SCREAM - a detailed, spanky, transparent bell-like rich chiming natural glassy blooming friggin' scream - natch. Mr. Green

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

Robert Leaman · From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA

"Nearly all" amplifiers have an input section that rectifies the incoming AC mains voltage. I have extensive design experience with extremely high power rectifier systems. Whatever the line condition, after rectification with its subsequent filtering (inductive and capacitive components) that brings the pulsating DC to an acceptable constant quality, all line "qualities" phasing, etc., are lost and one can say eliminated. Why spend money on such "hyped" power cables when the money can be spend on a magnet to put on your automobile's fuel line that increases gasolene mileage by 40%.

The real detrimental condition is voltage drop due to insufficient conductor size.

These guys are laughing all the way to the bank.

Craig Stenseth · From: Naperville, Illinois, USA

I bought a 10' power cable from Amazon for my bass amp, that was about the best $4 I spent that month. I can now be farther from the outlet.

Matthew Carlin · From: Lake County, IL.

This is great... I don't claim to understand the science behind it all. I'm not a rich audiophile, with a 10,000 dollar stereo, I can't hear the difference between 10 ft oxygen free instrument cable and 10 ft regular instrument cable. Shoot I'm not even that good of a musician.

All I'm sayin is I plug it in and the amp sounds and responds better than when I had the cheapo chord that came with it. I'm thrilled with it, and I enjoy hearing all your opinions good and bad.

In all fairness to ESP, I don't think the patent you guys disputing is linked to ESP. It seems to belong to another cable company.

I checked the website and can't find any reference to that patent #. Please post a link
_________________
"Just tryin to make some music in the money business"

Mark MacKenzie · From: Franklin, Tennessee, USA

Glad you mentioned rectifiers. They aren't in the signal path but change tubes and its audible. How about diodes? Aren't fast FRED's audible? (Not rhetorical, are they? ) And of course the amount of filter capacitance makes a very audible change. All these are power supply and not in the signal path, right?

What I don't understand is the claims of phase relationships. A 120v ac signal of 60 hz is out of phase with what? There is nothing to be out of phase with, isn't that right?

Anyway, Brad Sarno is a very sharp guy who knows his stuff. Reading his post makes me think there might be something to this.

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

Placebo's make a lot of sick people feel better, but they do absolutely nothing physical, but evidently do a lot mentally.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

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