| Author |
Topic: The new Fishman pickup / Aura pedal combination |
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 29 Jun 2008 9:54 pm |
|
I recall us discussing possible pickups for reso a couple of weeks ago and thought it might be worthwile repeating my take on it here, as posted on the resonation forum, FWIW:
"Got my reso back on Saturday with the new pickup installed. It was played in the shop by one of their salesmen (he owns a lapsteel & a National tri-cone). Eventually we had a crowd of people listening to the great sound coming from it and the 'tester' swore that his next instrument is a squareneck with pickup installed!
The sound is simply great and everything as promised by Tim & JD. AFAIC it can be played without the Aura, but the pedal undoubtedly boosts its dobro sound characteristics. I was a bit disappointed with the little sound difference from the various mic (and blend) settings though, but that's not really a concern.
IMHO the pedal's pre-amp does not boost it enough to be used with a plugged-in band and secondary pre-amp / amp gain is needed to really turn up the volume. Having said that, I really had to abuse the volume & gain by the secondary pre-amp in order to get some feedback (none from the pedal alone - even on max volume), so the Fishman is going to be an immense asset on stage - I'll know the weekend when used live for the first time. And if you've been wondering if you really don't need a mic anymore - you bet!
In my case the pickup, pedal & installation worked out the equivalent of about $450 US, so I'm much better off than rollins as far as cost is concerned.
This is undoubtedly the best sound investment I've made in years!" |
|
|
 |
Tor Arve Baroy
From:
Norway
|
Posted 4 Jul 2008 2:19 am
|
|
I have just ordered one myself (pickup)
Cant wait to get it home!!! |
|
|
|
Bruce Bouton
From:
Nash. Tn USA
|
Posted 6 Jul 2008 6:23 am
|
|
I just started using one live. it sounds great.It was a bit tough to install but well worth the trouble.Reba's husband says it's the best live dobro sound he's ever heard.
Bb |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 6 Jul 2008 10:26 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| I have just ordered one myself |
Tor, be prepared to be highly impressed!
Bruce, you're right - I'm so glad that I never fell for the temptation to buy one of the $1,000 mic's on the market to try and be heard on stage and still keep the reso sound - the $250 Aura is a much better investment!  |
|
|
|
Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
|
Posted 6 Jul 2008 11:18 pm
|
|
| Bruce Bouton wrote: |
I just started using one live. it sounds great.It was a bit tough to install but well worth the trouble.Reba's husband says it's the best live dobro sound he's ever heard.
Bb |
Bruce, did you install it yourself? What's involved. I've got an old McIntyre in my Guernsey, sure would be nice to put something better in there! |
|
|
|
Tom Middleton
From:
Austin, Texas, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 6:32 am
|
|
Stephen,
I am thinking about sending my Guernsey back to Ivan and have him install the Aura. I would have Beard ship the system, spider, and bridge inserts direct to him. |
|
|
|
Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 6:59 am
|
|
| I spent my 4th of July weekend putting the new Fishman pickup into my reso spider bridge. It is a rather involved process - I had to thin down the lower (maple) parts of the bridge inserts and put a slight taper to them to fit in my older #14 spider bridge. It is tricky with the wires there. It would be very easy to slip up and cut a wire by accident. I can see the benefit of the new Beard adjustable spider bridge here. All else is fairly straight forward and I got it all in (I know how to use a solder iron). I find the bass a bit boomy for me when running thru a Roland Cube 60. I'll have to play with the EQ a bit more. I am using the Aura too and, like Tobie, find the different settings not that different. I wish the Aura had some EQ controls on it as well. I think it will be great once I get it all dialed in. So far I like it - but it is not the "holy grail". And if you don't play that well - it just makes you suck at a louder volume. : ) |
|
|
|
Bruce Bouton
From:
Nash. Tn USA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 12:35 pm
|
|
Tim Scheerhorn installed it. Unless you're handy with that kind of thing I would suggest getting a pro to do it. I understand Beard is selling Spiders with the pickup installed. that may be the way to go.I'm still experimenting but i'm finding the best sound is a blend between the pickup and aura. Tim seems to think the bridge(pickup) messes with the acoustic tone a bit. That's why I have a Wechter scheerhorn for my live rig and left my other Scheerhorn alone. So far the new pickup, aura combination works better than anything I've had to date(since 1979)
BB |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 8:17 pm
|
|
I would think that until your favorite reso luthier has the whole thing dialed in, and you lack the time, inclination, and/or confidence to do it yourself, sending your reso to Beard Guitars, who developed the system with Fishman, and Jerry Douglas - seems like the way to go to me.
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Orville Johnson
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 11:02 pm
|
|
| Bruce, the idea of putting it in a Wechter/Scheerhorn is what I'm also thinking. I don't really want to tear into one of my nice dobros to make a plug-in rig. did Tim S. agree that putting the pickup in a "lesser" quality guitar would still render a nice sound? Sounds like you think that. |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 7 Jul 2008 11:50 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| I wish the Aura had some EQ controls on it as well |
Tom, I've found the 'Blend' control on the Aura to do the necessary for me and even if I do go through the mixer, I leave all the EQ settings on '0'.
| Quote: |
| sending your reso to Beard Guitars, who developed the system with Fishman, and Jerry Douglas - seems like the way to go to me |
True, although I took mine to a general 'guitar' luthier who did it for the first time. He did a perfect job without battling too much. I just told him to keep the hole for the leads going from the saddle to the output jack close to one of the spider legs (as recommended, to prevent rattling against the other 'web-like' bridging legs).
| Quote: |
| did Tim S. agree that putting the pickup in a "lesser" quality guitar would still render a nice sound? |
He does not have to - it will at least sound better than anything else you can install into it... |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 8 Jul 2008 3:26 am
|
|
| Orville Johnson wrote: |
| Bruce, the idea of putting it in a Wechter/Scheerhorn is what I'm also thinking. I don't really want to tear into one of my nice dobros to make a plug-in rig. did Tim S. agree that putting the pickup in a "lesser" quality guitar would still render a nice sound? Sounds like you think that. |
Orville, I'm always curious as to a picker's reasoning for this.
What does the "tearing into" portion consist of? Drilling a second hole (the first being the strap button) for a 1/4" jack on the tail end of the guitar?
You're not a "bluegrass purist" anyway.
Besides, when it comes to the dobro in the world of acoustic guitars, it has a vibe that leans more toward being a Rube Goldberg contraption, what with the metal parts, along with a giant hole on the top which contains these metal items, and typically two smaller holes. Along with the "innards," which might consist of a soundwell or plastic baffling. It's not like "tearing into" a well-preserved mid 1930's D-28.
The Beard JD model sells for over 5K (doesn't have the system as a stock item), and the 50 only limited edition guitars, with the higher priced sapele all around and the Fishman system already installed, is going for $7500. I don't think that anyone perceives that this 7.5K reso guitar has somehow been compromised by including the system.
Plus, the whole system is anything but cheap. I don't think the intention of marketing this unit was to people who will only use it in a ballpark $700-$1,000 guitar (the price range of most of the Wechter Scheerhorn models, or what I fondly refer to as "Fruglhorns"), it is really intended to give a player quality amplification with their "A Game" rig, and to be able to free them from having to use a pickup in conjunction with a microphone.
Tobie, it's good to know that a "general" luthier "nailed it" on the installation, and Bruce - it makes sense that Tim Scheerhorn already has the process down.
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Orville Johnson
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2008 8:50 am
|
|
Mark, I think my reasoning would be familiar to many pro musicians who travel but don't have infrastucture (guitar techs, buses, roadies, etc) to protect their gear.
I don't take my nicest acoustic guitars on the road with me. They are reserved for studio work, local gigs where I can take them in my car, and playing with friends. For travel I take instruments that sound good plugged in since I almost always need to do that to get a consistently decent sound from many differing sound systems. I have a Takamine guitar that sounds great and very acousticky when plugged in that I use for this purpose but I've always had to take a nice dobro along and deal with the vagaries of micing it (I have tried and hated all spider bridge pickups so far) and worry about the baggage monkeys tossing it.
So I'd love to have a plug in, travel dobro that sounded good and I didn't feel was irreplaceable if it got smashed. Sounds to me like the W/S with the Aura could be the thing.
I also am particular about the bridge insert material on my dobros and if there's a chance that the TUSQ would change my acoustic sound I'd rather have a dobro that's just set up for electric and use it as such. |
|
|
|
Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
|
Posted 8 Jul 2008 12:11 pm
|
|
My original bridge inserts were ebony on maple. I was leery about changing that over to the TUSQ material. But now that it is all in, I have to say I don't hear any difference in the acoustic sound of my reso. Of course, YMMV. I was very careful to get the inserts to seat into the #14 spider slots. This took quite some time. This is not for the faint at heart.
One thing I do notice is that my bass side insert pickup is just a tad hotter than my treble side insert pickup. I am tempted to try to blend the two sides a bit better. (a super low value resistor in series with the hot wire of the bass side pickup should do it). Anyone run into this? |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 8 Jul 2008 4:10 pm
|
|
"This just in!"
I know that a number of you probably don't frequent the Jerry Douglas NeighBROhood Forum, so you might find the following post from Jerry himself of interest, from earlier this afternoon:
| Quote: |
After reading many posts on the new JD/Fishman Aura Image box, I am very happy and convinced we have done a good thing here. However, there are a couple of questions about it and I am here to answer them. First of all, it is not a preamp in the way a Sansamp would be or anything like that meant to boost signal. There is a volume knob and for me it has proven more than useful. I usually run the volume at half. Giving me some headroom if needed. There is no XLR out, so I would still strongly advise a direct box to give you a low impedence interface to the board. Or go straight into your amp without the need of a direct box. Some amps have an XLR out, giving you the advantage there.
There are 16 different images of microphones at different distances from the guitar. Some mics were small diaphragm (SM-81, KM-84) and were used only at close proximity. Distance with such a diaphragm was only thinner(more treble) at a distance of 18 inches.
At this point, I am thinking more of the microphones as EQ changes. I really like the 1st image, a Neumann U-67 at close proximity. I like the balance and reedy quality of it. But I also really enjoy the huge bassy qualities of 3 and 4, an old RCA-77 ribbon mic at different distances. If I feel I have the room around me sonically, I love how full and toneful it can be. If I feel I'm not cutting through the band, I might even switch to, of all things, an SM-57 (#16 image). That old mid-range honk drives right through the banjos and cymbals. There are many stops in between that can accomodate any tone, from old dobro sounding to full range bass and treble.
I was very lucky to have all these great microphones to record and think a good tone can be had with any of them. AND it doesn't make you sound like ME. It gives your guitar a level playing field to start with. I heard Mike Auldridge play through my rig at the Birchmere and that was a revelation for me. It sounded like him, even though he was playing my guitar. The same thing happens between us when we play the same guitar acoustically. So, it was a litmus test satisfied.
The pickup is a wonderful advancement, but that isn't what gives you the dobro sound, just a much stronger signal than we're used to having from a pickup without feedback. You're going to see some other well known players using all this very soon. I am thrilled it is all going so well, and even happier that we can finally be heard and have so much control over our own sound.
If you have any more questions, I am more than happy to answer when time allows. Back on my head for now. |
And Orville, thank you for your explanation - it makes good sense about not taking out the "crown jewels" on the road, unless you are with a bigger touring organization like Alison Krauss & Union Station featuring Jerry Douglas, or The Jerry Douglas Band, or Bruce Bouton touring with Reba (but then Bruce isn't bringing his "Realhorn" on the road anyway).
I do the church band and some small Winery and coffee house style gigs, and I never let my Clinesmith out of my sight! Well, okay, at the church it feels pretty safe... 
_________________
Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 9 Jul 2008 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 8 Jul 2008 9:17 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| I don't think the intention of marketing this unit was to people who will only use it in a ballpark $700-$1,000 guitar |
Mark, I respectfully disagree. I believe it was intended for anyone battling with getting heard on-stage. Like you, I'm playing in church - and once a few hundred guys & gals start singing, you're in trouble if you only use a mic, regardless of your guitar model. I can imagine this system ending up in mostly Beard GoldTones (in the $750 price range) and W/S's like mine (in the $1,200 price range). I thoroughly enjoy your comments! |
|
|
|
Dennis Ellerbee
From:
Jackson, Georgia US
|
Posted 10 Jul 2008 4:23 pm How to amplify.
|
|
| I have the new Fishman in my Beard R and it sounds great through a PA. Bought the Aura pedal to add. The pedal really makes a difference. I play alot in a country band ( Steel and Dobro )so I was wondering how to amplify the dobro. Played around with my Nashville 112 amp but never got a good sound. But then I bought two tweeter speakers and built a box for them. I just sit it on top of the amp and connect with the speaker, and got what I was looking for. It sounds tremendous and can get as loud as you can stand without feeding back. The tweeters give the amp the high end that it needs for the dobro. The sound is as good as through the PA. Just some info to help anyone out there who is having a similar problem. |
|
|
|
Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
|
Posted 10 Jul 2008 5:15 pm
|
|
And now perhaps the pedal steelers of the world, when called upon to do more "doubling" on the dobro - not having to fight feedback and sound "bleeding" and all the other stuff which caused problems - will bring a dobro to the gig and get rid of those godforsaken dobro "simulators!" 
_________________
Mark |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 10 Jul 2008 9:32 pm
|
|
Just another add-on from Erik Waynesmith on the reso-nation forum:
| Quote: |
Aura Testing @ Elderly
As briefly mentioned in one of my previous posts, my first hands-on experience with the new Fishman pickup and Aura JD Imaging Pedal occurred a little over a week ago, while trying out a Beard JD Limited at Elderly (which comes with the pickup pre-installed, and includes an Aura pedal). I wanted to be able to hear just the pickup and/or Aura output by itself, so I wouldn't be 'fooled' by hearing a mix of the instrument acoustically plus the pickup's sound; I also wanted to be able to record some samples of the Aura's output so that if necessary I could take them back home with me and perform further listening tests before deciding to spend the $450 - $500 it'd take to install this system in one of my own resos. To accomplish these goals, I took my Zoom H2 digital recorder and a pair of audiophile-grade sealed earbuds with me to Elderly.
Since the output of the Aura unit is mono I used a mono-to-stereo 1/4"-1/8" adapter cable to connect it to both channels of the Zoom unit, so I'd be able to hear the Aura's signal in both earbuds. With this isolated monitoring/recording setup in place I began by listening to the raw output from the pickup. Although I definitely liked what I heard in comparison to any of the other reso pickups I've tried in the past, as to be expected with it being a mono signal the sound seemed 'closed in' and lacked any real sense of acoustic space. However, when I switched to the Aura output all of the sudden I was hearing a true, rich, natural reso sound that I'd have difficulty matching in my recording studio using some of the very best mics available for reso.
By far, the biggest shock for me as an audio engineer was that in addition to great reso tone, I was also hearing a 3-dimensional ambience and spaciousness that I would've never thought possible with only a mono signal path. When the Aura unit was set on some of its more ambient-rich [distant-miced] images, the very pleasing sense of depth and space from this mono signal was as good as what I can typically achieve live using a STEREO pair of high-end mics and premium quality STEREO reverb unit! This appears to be the result of Aura's very sophisticated manipulation of both frequency and phase information in the pickup's signal; for me, the most significant impact of Fishman having accomplished this feat using only a mono signal path is that this wonderful depth and spaciousness can be reproduced live thru a mono PA system.
FWIW, I was so impressed with the results of my listening test at Elderly that rather than waiting as I'd planned to carefully review the recorded samples before finally deciding to 'take the plunge', I concluded there was simply no reason to wait. I immediately purchased the parts required to install this revolutionary breakthru in reso amplification into one of my resos, and am very much looking forward to using an Aura-equipped reso live for the first time at a bluegrass festival later this month. |
|
|
|
|
Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
|
Posted 25 Jul 2008 8:34 am
|
|
Is there any information to be had on whether or not this system would work on >6 string reso's? I have a 10 string with a wider bridge saddle than a normal 6 string. I wonder if the outer 4 strings would be weak in comparison to the center 6?
_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 26 Jul 2008 3:59 am
|
|
Greg, no-one else has asked about >6 string saddles before, so I'll be surprised if such fishman pickups are being made. In fact, since JD was involved in the production of the pickup & producing the Aura sound images, it's very unlikely that you'd get a >6 string model. I guess the best would be to chat to the man (Tim Sheerhorn) himself.
I have found that on most Aura selections, the balance between all strings is amazingly perfect. On one or two settings the bass strings / 4th string sound is a bit stronger than the others. Other reso's might have similar but different type of results. |
|
|
|
Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
|
Posted 26 Jul 2008 5:12 am
|
|
I'm curious what Tim has to do with anything since it was Paul Beard that was involved with the development. Tim has his name on the Schertler product. 
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L
Last edited by Howard Parker on 28 Jul 2008 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Beard Guitars
From:
Maryland, USA
|
Posted 26 Jul 2008 5:17 am
|
|
Unfortunately (and I speak as an 8 string player) it is highly unlikely there will be an 8/10 string version available.
I'll have to retain my Fishman Active pup for that particular axe.
_________________
Beard Guitars, LLC
21736 Leitersburg Pike
Hagerstown, MD 21742
301-733-8271
pbeardguitars@hotmail.com |
|
|
|
Tobie Schalkwyk
From:
South Africa
|
Posted 27 Jul 2008 10:20 pm
|
|
| Howard Parker wrote: |
| I'm curious what Tim has to do with anything since it was Paul Beard that was involved with the development. Tim has his name on the Shertler product. |
You're so right, Howard (I plead temporary brain mulfunction!). PB is the one to talk to. |
|
|
|
John Lang
From:
Las Vegas, Nevada
|
Posted 17 Nov 2009 10:13 am
|
|
I decided to go with the Fishman bridge/Aura system as well, and spent some time talking with Steve Olson over at Elderly. He recommended going with the replacement spider as well.
Steve's labor fee for the installation was very reasonable, as this was not something I was anxious to tackle myself. The entire system sounds fabulous, and is well worth the cost.
_________________
www.johnlangmusic.com
https://www.facebook.com/john.lang.1694 |
|
|
|
