Installing Internal Hard drive

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

I've been running a Dell dimension 8200 for the last 5 years with an 80 GB Hard Drive. Its geting to the point of being full so I purchased a compatible HD from Dell, 500GB, to install in its place. Should I just unplug the 80 GB and install the 500 GB in its place and reboot with the OS CD in the CD Drive? There was no instructions, CD, etc. with the new HD. Does the New HD need to be formatted before installing OS? I've installed sound cards, video card, PCI cards and such but never something like this. I'd really not like my computer to be down for a year or so. LOL.

Any other areas I need to consider before doing this just let me know.

Thanks for all your help.....Eddie

Wiz Feinberg · From: Mid-Michigan, USA

I am not an expert with Dell recovery disks, but I believe that they must have imaged those disks knowing that customers would be installing onto newer and larger disks. So yes, insert the recovery CD and let it install onto your 500Gb hard drive.

Now, is your BIOS smart enough to recognize 500 Gb and boot from it? Only Dell knows. Do a lookup of your model and serial number, at dell.com, then look under downloads to see if a newer BIOS is available.

Let us know before you do anything to your BIOS.
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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Dell Windows XP CD is only that, Windows XP. Dell does not issue a "complete solution" recovery CD. Some later models have a recovery partition on the hard drive, but not the older 8200.

As this is an IDE interface drive, make sure you have the device type set to "Cable Select" (NOT Master or Slave). And, you didn't have to buy the hard drive from Dell, it uses a standard IDE (PATA) that you could have bought anywhere.

If you don't have the other drivers for the PC, you can download them from the Dell downloads HERE

Although you could "clone" the old drive to the new one, the "clean" install is best. Over years of operation the Operating System can get "clogged up" from installing/uninstalling programs, etc. You will be amazed at how fast the old PC runs after a clean install.

Since you will have the old drive, you can also connect that as a second drive or at least connect it temporarily so you can copy over your USER data to the new drive (pictures, music, wordprocessor files, Internet Explorer favorites, e-mail address book, etc). However, you can't copy Programs, they will have to be installed using the programs installation application.

You should disconnect any peripherals (e.g. printer) BEFORE you install Windows on the new hard drive. You will have to install the peripherals using the installation CD for the device and -VERY IMPORTANT - do not physically reconnect the device until the install program tells you. If you connect the device (e.g. printer) first either it will not install or Windows could install incorrect drivers for it.

Wiz Feinberg · From: Mid-Michigan, USA

Thanks for chiming in here Jack. I wasn't sure if the CD that Dell supplied had any custom drivers on it. I knew I could count on you to explain the Dell procedure better than I could.
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Gary Richardi · From: SoCal, USA

The absolute easiest route to take for additional storage is to get an external USB drive. They are cheap and fast and all you have to do it plug it in, format, and go. You can get 500GB and up external drives for a couple hundred. IMHO, there is absolutely no reason for you to reinstall Windows if you're not having problems. It's not an easy task for someone who hasn't done it before. I've done it hundreds of times and I still hate the interactive install process.

Wouldn't you rather spend your time playing than reinstalling Windows? I certainly would and I have an MCSE in Win2003.

UPDATE: I re-read your post and realized you've already purchased the IDE drive. You can get an external USB enclosure for it for not much more than $20. Definitely the way to go.

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

Thanks Wiz, Jack and Gary for all the information. I'm going to print it all out for later use.

Wiz, I think I had to update the BIOS on this machine once before, but can't remember the reason for it now.

I'm really hesitant about this undertaking as I'm sure I'll forget something important, or something that I forgot to backup etc. so I'm leaning on going the route that Gary was talking about.

My biggest concerns are that my BIAB and Sonar Programs are 50GB. If I store most of the files on the storage drive, does there have to be an exe. file for the program on the drive also, or it just a materr of copying back and forth.

Again Thanks for all your Info.
Jack, you might be getting a personal email from me about this procedure sometime as It seems you're very knowledgable about Dell and this kind of situation... Eddie

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

I just bought an Acomdata 500 GB firewire external hard drive for $125. I'm using it as a 2nd backup as I filled the first. They had a 3/4 GB for $169 and even a 1 TB tho I don't remember the price. Even that wasn't too bad.

Gary Richardi · From: SoCal, USA

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

Hi Gary.... Thanks for the information.

I went and purchased a USB enclosure for the 500GB Hard Drive, but I can't get my computer to recognize it, using the install disk that came with the enclosure. The manual states If it isn't assigned a Drive Letter to format with Disc Management. I went to Disk Management but the drive wasn't there to format, so how do I format a drive I can't find?

Thanks for all your Help thus far, but this could get scary!!!!!! Eddie

Wiz Feinberg · From: Mid-Michigan, USA

Eddie;
With the USB disk powered on and connected to a USB port, reboot the computer. See if Windows detects and installs a Generic USB Volume driver. If not, try using the Add Hardware Wizard in Control Panel to add a Generic Volume. Afterward, try using Disk Management to format it and assign a drive letter.
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Jon Moen · From: Canada

ignore this

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

Hi Wiz: I've tried rebooting with the USB device powered on and disk in the CD-rom with no luck. I've tried Add New Hardware and nothing detects it there. I think I'll just try and install it internally and see what happens. I have a friend locally that has built computers so he will probably be my best bet to get out of this dilema. thanks again for all the help and suggestions.....Eddie

Jon....Ignore what?

Jon Moen · From: Canada

I had posted something irrelavent. However since you are going to install it internally it is now relavent.

You can just install the drive as simply another drive. Leave your original drive and programs alone and tell your software that the default (working) directory is a folder of your choosing on the new drive. All you are using it for is extra storage.

Gary Richardi · From: SoCal, USA

I have seen XP fail to recognize drives attached to USB ports but it's VERY rare. Initially, you should boot with the drive NOT connected so you can monitor the recognition process. Once the system has completed booting and desktop is up, plugging in the external drive and the power supply (you did get an external PS with the enclosure, right? AFAIK, full-sized drives can't be powered from the USB bus like 2.5" laptop drives can. You need an external power supply) should start Windoze plug n' pray up and it should recognize the drive. For XP you never have to install any drivers for external HDs. Generic ones are built into the OS.

If that's not happening and the drive is actually powered & installed properly, it could be a "phantom USB driver" problem but that's extremely rare and usually only happens if you attach/detach a lot of similar devices to your USB port often. I had it happen to my laptop - drove me nuts. Only MY thumbdrive worked. If anyone gave me theirs to access or copy something to I'd get prompted for a driver. After MUCH research, I learned it was caused by a corrupted USB driver (built into XP). I had to clean out all inactive USB drivers using the "show hidden drivers" option in device mangler. Once I did that, XP recognized USB devices properly.

I seriously doubt you have the same problem though. I've configured hundreds of XP machines, worked with many collegues running XP, and have never (beside the Google hits) actually run into that problem before or since it hit my laptop. I suspect either your external power supply is not working correctly (also experienced 1st-hand - thought my tower's USB drive died but found the external PS couldn't put out the required amperage under load anymore even though it should the proper voltage on a meter) or you installed the drive in the enclosure wrong.

Since you have a buddy who builds computers, see if any of his systems recognize the USB drive. If so, then yeah, one of your system's USB drivers are probably corrupted. But if not, then either something is defective or the drive was installed into the enclosure wrong.

BTW, if your system has room for a 2nd internal HD, your internal power supply can handle it (most likely), and you have a local friend to help you out with th physical install, that's a good option but it really shouldn't be necessary to crack open your system unit. The USB option should work.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

On a Dell 8200 there aren't a lot of USB ports, but there have been issues with the amount of power available at the USB ports. If you are connecting to a rear port, try connecting to a front USB port as the front ports had more power.

And, from what I remember and see in the online manual, the Ports in the 8200 are either all 1.1 ports or there may possibly be a combination of 1.1 and 2.0, but I would bet they are all 1.1. That being the case, adding the second internal hard drive is the best option. The 8200 came around the same time that 2.0 started showing up, it may be the 8250 (next model)was the first with 2.0 ports. If there are any 2.0 ports they are on the rear.

To verify if you have any USB 2.0 ports, display the USB in the Device Manager and if there is one entry that contains "Enhanced Controller" then there are USB 2.0 ports, but if there is no "Enhanced Controller" shown then all you have is 1.1 ports. Looking at the BIOS there is no option for that in the BIOS.

But, either way the drive must be "initialized" before Windows will see it.

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

I Have a Dynex USB 2.0 PCI Host Controller Card in my computer because I got tired of seeing the message "this Device Can Perform Faster" and installed the card. But upon looking in the Device Manager as you said I see no entry as Enhanced Controller so I dont know if I have 2.0 or 1.1 if there was no option to upgrade in the BIOS. Is that correct?

What do I have to do to Initialize the Drive so Windows will see it? Thanks Eddie

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Yes, you need the PCI card, you can't upgrade to 2.0 with software, it needs hardware.

It may be still be a BIOS issue or did you get any driver software for the 2.0 card?

There is an "AO9" BIOS update on the Dell downloads. If you don't have that version I'd suggest you do update. The update is HERE

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

Jack, The PCI Card came with a CD with Drivers on the CD. I installed and didn't know there was a problem, or possibly a problem, when I installed the card.

I will look into the BIOS update and see if I need it.

Thanks so much for everyone's Help and suggestions....Eddie

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Another isssue I just saw, on the Dell forum.

"On older systems USB cards with the USB chip made by VIA didn't work as well as USB cards that used an NEC USB chip. I think Belkin was one of the vendors that usually used NEC USB chips. Most USB card vendors don't list the manufacturer of the USB chip on their card(s), but often you can download the driver and look at the .sys file properties or open the .inf file and check in there for hints about the chip manufacturer."

Eddie Harper · From: Fairfield, Ohio

My USB card is a recent addition to my computer, but I can't really tell if it made that much difference from the 1.1. version.

I checked the BIOS update that you suggested Jack, but I already had the A09 BIOS update.

I'm going to try and install the hard drive this weekend but just to use for storage and not try and put the OS on it. Hopefully all will go well with this.

Thanks to Everyone for their Help and suggestions...Eddie

Wayne Carver · From: Martinez, Georgia, USA

I've had computers with 2 internal drives before. The 2nd or slave drive was nice for extra storage of files, pictures, songs, etc. but when I installed programs on it they didn't seem to work as good as having them on the "c drive".
I know it's a pain to reload everything but I would rather have my bigger/newer drive as the main drive and format the old drive as the secondary drive.

Gary Richardi · From: SoCal, USA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The OS can care less where something is located, just so it knows where it is. e.g. there is no difference keeping pictures on the "C" drive or some other internal drive.

Years ago with slow I/O channels and slow drives there could have been a slight difference. But with current technology equipment it's not an issue.

When I worked in Networking, our offices had Novell Netware and the Novell server. The "workstations" (PC's) did not have any application programs such as WordPerfect (the word processor that was used), dBase, etc. These application programs were installed on the server and when someone needed to write a letter they accessed WordPerfect on the server. But to the user it "loaded" as fast as it would have it if was on the local PC.

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