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Topic: Link to Sho~Bud Forum Deal Gone Bad |
Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 1:49 am |
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One of the ways I gauge a sellers integrity is to ask if they are agreeable to local pickup.
Most like the idea of saving the packing hassles,and have nothing to hide.
I sent this question to The Dart, using my wife's eBay account (755 feedbacks, 100% positive,on Bay since 1998)
Here's the question and response:
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Q: If I win the auction, can I pickup the guitar, avoiding shipping. I'd like to try it before handing over the cash. Thanks.
Jul-23-08
A: There is no auction. It's forsale. Buy it before an Arabe or Muslem gets it.They are not Steel player's, that I know of. You pick it up at my house and play it.Thats the way to buy it.I have sold most all my guitar's from right here,ebay to my house. You won't ask me for a refund unless a death or something happen's. I'll refund it and sell it again for more.Your #3. Put into paypal tonight or early in the morning,Bro. This is the ONE, Brother. Free lessons also ,for you...thedartt65 |
Although I said I'll pay cash on pickup, he insists on immediate Paypal payment, Run! |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 3:12 am
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It's pretty clear from the seller's response to Joey, not to mention his previous rant (I only sell to musicions [sic])--every statement moves away from the question asked. There's no actual attempt at communication, just smoke and mirrors. There's hardly enough to prove fraudulent intent, as he seems so--what, unbalanced, unfocused? 'Free lessons for you?'
Always ask the seller a question. Any question.
But wonderful to see guys here helping the situation. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 3:33 am
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'Free lessons for you?'
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Judging from his communication skills, the "free lessons" would be an adventure.  |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 3:48 am
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Thanks Joey.
You and others like you are warning our fellow members to stay clear of this swindler.
He writes like a 3rd grader and that may be giving him more credit than he deserves.
He is also very rude in his responses to any questions asked him.
Don |
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Robert Pastore
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 5:48 am
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as a newbie to both PSG's and this forum, I have to agree with b0b. I don't think the dart knowingly bait and switched Mac. I think it was an accident.
That said, he should have returned the money and taken back the guitar as he obviously emailed the wrong pictures.
link removed because I was even wronger then i thought i was.
the pics that were sent outside the auction were obviously not for the guitar for sale, as the under carriage is a double neck with 8 pedals. Maybe this is a bait and switch, but to me it looks more like a senile seller then an evil one.
I know we all want to lynch the dart (I wouldn't mind seeing some sense talked into him) but it looks like after all the awesome generosity on this forum, Mac will end up with a pretty good deal.
(I have no idea what the guitar was worth in the condition it was received, but i haven't seen many steels under $700)
There are a few other inconsistency's in the listing as it was supposed to arrive playable, but at least it came with an official "seal" of approval. 
All's well that ends well.
great work from an inspiring community.
Rob[i][/i][/size][/size]
*edit* - after reading Don and Mac's replies
Don and Mac,
I would like to apologize to both of you. Since I have no real knowledge of what you guys went through with this auction, it was silly of me to hypothesis on what may or may not have happened.
I do sincerely hope that this issue is resolved fairly and speedily.
Sorry if my post added to any stress.
Rob
Last edited by Robert Pastore on 24 Jul 2008 8:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 6:33 am
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Robert
I'm sorry but I must disagree with you that he did not do it on purpose.
I was involved from day 1 for a refernce about Mac as a player and person because Dardeman said he only sold to musicians as was written in the above post.
This was purely a bait and switch from the start and nothing else.
Don |
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Malcolm G. Belmont
From:
Beverly Hills ,Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 6:47 am Pictures
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| I sent these pictures to a member and asked not to put them on the forum.I did not want to stir up any more ---------- than was necessary. I turned this over to the wife. She sent him two pictures onbe with the caption this is what we recieved a picture of. This is what we goverened the purchase by. She then sent him the picture of what we did recieve. She put in the caption. Do you realize what you sent . She got no where.She has 99 good stars on ebay from buying cookie jats.Dart bought this guitar from some one for 2100 where as he stated to us he bought it new and it was in a recording studio. A & b pedal was not hooked up/ how do you play any song with out these pedals.I am glad I was taught how to play by a profesional and not dart. mac |
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Robert Pastore
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:12 am
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Don and Mac,
I would like to apologize to both of you. Since I have no real knowledge of what you guys went through with this auction, it was silly of me to hypothesis on what may or may not have happened.
I do sincerely hope that this issue is resolved fairly and speedily.
Sorry if my post added to any stress.
Rob |
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:13 am
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| Joey Ace wrote: |
[snip]
I sent this question to The Dart, using my wife's eBay account (755 feedbacks, 100% positive,on Bay since 1998)
Here's the question and response:
| Quote: |
Q: If I win the auction, can I pickup the guitar, avoiding shipping. I'd like to try it before handing over the cash. Thanks.
[snip] |
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Without sticking up for this mental case, I'd like to take the other side of this discussion here. If you sent me an e-mail indicating that you wanted to try [the guitar out] before handing over the cash, I'd frankly tell you to find another auction. I would be fine with cash money and your picking up locally, but if you wanted to 'try the guitar out', you are welcome to do that before the auction ends, not after. By the time you win the auction, it's yours. The evaluation period is over. You've agreed to the purchase in good faith, and it's your responsibility to follow through.
We may disagree on the semantics here, but I - as a seller - would need a sense that you are interested coming over to complete the transaction in good faith, not to further prolongue it.
Again - I'm not sticking up for this bonehead.
_________________
"...An admission of interest in protracted commentary is certainly no reason to capitalize on surmised aberations that do not exist." - BH |
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Carl Vilar
From:
New Jersey USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:16 am
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Robert you got the wrong guitar that is not the link to the guitar Mac bought. I also disagree with you there was no honest mistake here.
Also let me make a point about paypal so those that don't understand it will. This is an example of how people get burned even using paypal.
Bank account #1 is linked to paypal.
Bank account #2 is also mine and NOT linked to paypal
you send 2500 to bank account #1
I take the money out and put it to account #2 leaving a balance of 60 dollars in account #1
you file a paypal claim to get your 2500 back. Well guess what you can't there is not enough money in account #1 which is linked to paypal. and Paypal can not touch your other acounts. end of the road.
Also on Ebay there is Paypal protection most buyers and sellers show an amount of 2000.00 protection. which is good in a situation like the one I mentioned. But did anybody noticed Dartman's protection only goes up to 200.00 why?
It wouldn't have made a difference anyway since I think this deal was done outside of Ebay.
_________________
JCH 9/7
1971 Blond Twin Reverb 15" custom
Randall Steel Man 500 |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:28 am
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Carl
You are right.
This steel guitar was bought thru the "Wanted to Buy" section on the Forum.
Anyone can go back and read those posts to see the start of this mess.
Mac was clearly sent only the pix of the steel which is now on Ebay as I was given them to reduce so that Mac's computer could read them.
This is the God's honest truth.
Don |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:39 am
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| I would be fine with cash money and your picking up locally, but if you wanted to 'try the guitar out', you are welcome to do that before the auction ends, not after. |
That would be fine with me.
However, if that offer was not made, and I showed up with the cash, I'd insist on seeing and playing the instrument before I handed over the money.
If I showed up, and it was a different instrument, or having defects not disclosed in the auction, I'd leave and feel no remorse.
Besides, Dart says it's not an auction. He wants me to "Buy It Now" via Paypal. It doesn't matter as he says I'm third in line for it, and I don't want it anyway. |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 7:43 am
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There's hardly enough to prove fraudulent intent, as he seems so--what, unbalanced, unfocused? 'Free lessons for you?'
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Yep, it's the old "play dumb" trick.
An attempt to make himself look less like a crook, and more like the "absent minded professor", who really means well, just gets mixed up.
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Ga McDonnell
From:
N GA, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 8:24 am
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Bobby Dardeman is well known in Texas circles especially around San Antonio. He is personally known by several high visibility members of this forum. None have chosen to comment.
Apparently this man has been in the music business from way back. Has played with Willie Nelson and a lot of others. One steel player in a bio listed him as one of the biggest influences in his learning stages. He's been in groups with guitarist Jackie King and twin steeled with Denny Mathis in one road band. Backed a number of well known vocalists.
He had cardiac arrest about ten years ago while playing for Willie. He says he was unconscious for a long time and when he became conscious he didn't know anything. Couldn't even remember where to put the fingerpicks and bar. Had to relearn from scratch. There's web photos of him playing (including the Emmons p/p and the Gibson). There's a clip of him playing the Emmons (C6). This is a recent clip, judging by his age, it's what he is today, not what he was then. Not too bad. Not great, but his footwork shows he knows his way around the C6.
Says he graduated high school (1956). His grammer and spelling are terrible. ("my father singed and played guitar"), However, some of this may be brain damage from the heart condition. Someone suggested that he might have Alzheimer's Disease. It's possible. He's 70. He seems to know a lot of people and posts in different forums and blogs.
Doesn't really explain or justify the Sho-bud deal. Would help to have some input from those who know him. |
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 8:25 am
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| Joey Ace wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I would be fine with cash money and your picking up locally, but if you wanted to 'try the guitar out', you are welcome to do that before the auction ends, not after. |
That would be fine with me.
However, if that offer was not made, and I showed up with the cash, I'd insist on seeing and playing the instrument before I handed over the money.
If I showed up, and it was a different instrument, or having defects not disclosed in the auction, I'd leave and feel no remorse.
Besides, Dart says it's not an auction. He wants me to "Buy It Now" via Paypal. It doesn't matter as he says I'm third in line for it, and I don't want it anyway. |
I hear you, but I guess what I'm saying is that if it were me, you would not be invited over to pick up an item you won - whether by auction, or BIN - without having paid for it first. If you want to come over ahead of time and check out the item, while the bidding is still on-going, you're more than welcome. But after the auction ends, it's time to pony up. This is simple fairness to both parties, IMO.
_________________
"...An admission of interest in protracted commentary is certainly no reason to capitalize on surmised aberations that do not exist." - BH |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 8:58 am
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This is the guy with the $10,000 Emmonds, when I gave him a hard time about the price... He fired a email back quick on me with a firm command of the English Language.... and said that the guitar could be seen and picked up at the police station in Leon Vally.
Ken
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 10:13 am
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Bizarre  |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 1:29 pm
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It's easy to see that Dardeman's writings are an authentic map of his unfortunate breakdown in life.
Dardeman's crazy expositions have merged with egotism in several interesting ways. And this just makes his statements worse because they offend us more.
All of his writings have the same kind of reality-denying mentality. Unfortunately, I believe any person who deals with him are doomed to disappointment.
b0b asked if anybody knew him. When one considers that not one of his "family and friends" has jumped into this conflict to defend him, or even knowing him, I start to believe he is just another "sorry case" of mental illness.
I just hope Mac survives this ordeal happy and unscathed. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 1:51 pm
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well yes, its abundantly clear he's not right in the head and I feel bad for him for that...i just wish there was a way to keep people like him from harming others, selling on the net, voting, driving a vehicle, etc etc. The only way I can think of to acheive that is for there to be repercussions for his actions.
I dunno..its frustrating to know these kinds of people are out there and there is practically nothign that can be done about it. such is life I guess. |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 4:40 pm
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OK. Here it goes. First of all. Malcolm,I'm so sorry to hear about the problem with the steel. Ga, You are right on the money. I'm just catching up with this post and I'll share what I know about the Dart.
I first came to San Antonio in 1966. Robert, or as we know him ,Bobby Dartamin was one of the hot players in town. Bobby played heavy C6 along with Denny Mathis and Bud Treadwell. When I moved back here in 79 Bobby and Ginger had a nice music store and and carried steel guitars. Bobby still played very well and was pleasant to deal with although I never personally ever purchased much. Bobby's health has been going down for some time now. I'm amazed he is still alive. He has had heart trouble and has worn serious hearing aids for years along with a devorce. I was surprised to see him at the Dallas show this year. He seamed to be confused. I hate to see all of this. It's not the Bobby I have known. I guess no one else from here has responded because most of the older guys that know Bobby aren't forum members. Roger |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 6:09 pm
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| Thanks for the post Roger. That seems to clear a lot of things up in my mind. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Jul 2008 9:46 pm
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| Roger, That's great of you to offer this insight. It does help alot to understanding what's happening. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 1:16 am
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| But it doesn't make it right. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 3:43 am
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Since Roger and GA basically laid it all out, I guess I'll come out of the closet as well. I've known Bobby Dardeman about 30 years. All they have previously said is true. I read these stories and I shake my head in sorrow and disbelief about what's happened to a picker who used to be one of the main guys in San Antonio. The past few years have been very rough on him, and I believe Bobby is in serious decline with dementia.
This situation of course is no excuse for his wierd dealings and his somewhat incoherent ramblings, but his intent in these deals is not criminal, so calling the cops won't alleviate anything except to confuse the issue, and Bobby, even more. This situation should just be "buyer beware."
And I too feel sorry for Mac's situation and am glad the Forum and especially my pal Danny Hullihen has come to the aid of someone who was unfortunately victimized, regardless of the intent of the dealer.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Lonnie Zsigray
From:
Saint Louis,Mich., USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2008 6:37 am
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So for his own well being,Herb,shouldn't someone get in touch with him,personally,and somehow convince him that he should not be handling these sales himself.If he wants to conduct business in any way it should be through someone who is coherent and otherwise able to do so on his behalf.The way he is handling things right now is going to make the wrong person mad to the point that something very bad may result.If he indeed needs help then he should receive it.
_________________
If I hear it,I'm gonna try to steel it |
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