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Topic: Fold up Lever flags? |
Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 12:52 pm |
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I learned a number of years ago that one of the joys of customizing knee levers and their positioning is when you are finished and you go to fold them up and......they are positioned so that they can't fold up and go into the case.
In other words, that happened to me once and I will never again forget to keep that in mind when moving levers around or adding levers.
I want to add a flag/paddle to a couple of levers but the way they are currently (and properly) positioned, the flag will interfere with fold-away. Has anyone engineered any ingenious fold-up flags that hinge or pivot on the lever for stowage purposes? I've made nice little wooden slip-ons that are removed before fold-up but it's not an ideal system. |
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TRAP TRULY
From:
Mobile , AL
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 1:31 pm
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The Franklin guitar has a neat way of folding the flags.They pivot on a single screw to allow other levers to fold under the flag.Cool idea!
Last edited by TRAP TRULY on 14 Jul 2008 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 2:28 pm
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| Yes--for sure I'd love to see what Mr. Franklin came up with. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 2:30 pm
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Can you use the Emmons design? The extension pivots down to a 90 degree position and folds up against the lever to stow. Kinda of a foldaway L type attachment.
I'll look for a pic of these or perhaps someone will post a shot of them. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 2:35 pm
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| Never seen how those are designed, Jerry. Worth a look. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 3:31 pm
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| I've seen slots cut into flags so they will clear something to fold up. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 6:12 pm
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Jon, there is a pic of the design in the second photo in Randy Gilliam's thread here: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=137227
It's really just a piece of angle alum. riveted to the lever.
This one looks like it's on the wrong side of the lever however. You have to orient them to the direction of movement so they fit flush up against the lever when folded up.
If you have a bunch of levers in the middle working both directions, they might interfere somewhat if installed on all of them....generally though, they aren't necessary on every lever 
Maybe some better pics in some of the other Emmons F/S ads. |
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TRAP TRULY
From:
Mobile , AL
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Posted 14 Jul 2008 9:41 pm
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| bump for added pics of the franklin. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 15 Jul 2008 11:07 am
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| Thanks for both the Franklin & the Emmons pics. They definitely give me some ideas to work from. |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 15 Jul 2008 11:54 am
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Jon,Looking at the Franklin flag it seems to be close to a Strat bridge plate?which should have the holes in it allready,I might have to try that out on my RKR.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 15 Jul 2008 6:12 pm
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here's a pic of my Derby knee levers. The flags don't fold, the levers do. All three of the levers that move right have flags. They are very comfortable unlike the right angle bar style.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Jul 2008 6:49 pm
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| Most guitars use the "flags" because the pedals need to be extended back towards the player. Wouldn't it be easier to just mount the levers nearer to the rear of the guitar? |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2008 9:03 pm
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Donny, when you start getting a crowded undercarriage with lots of pedals/knee levers, sometimes the ONLY spot to easily squeeze in a lever is just too far away, so the flag becomes a necessary extension.
I'm probably going to create a custom flag for my secondary RKL on my Mullen, mount it with 2 screws to the lever, but have 2 slots on the flag so I can move it fore and aft until it's just right. I've never seen that on a guitar, but that seems simple and useful to me!
I think the Williams knee levers are the most comfortable and prettiest I've seen.
Has anyone ever designed KL's that can swivel on the shaft attaching them to the crossrod? That would be a nice way to get more comfort, without having to use a linkage system as is used for the LKL on Sho-Buds.
_________________
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Jul 2008 3:16 am
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John, notice Bo's guitar in his post. Those "flagged" levers could have all been mounted quite close to the rear apron. My most-used guitar had 8 levers, and none of those were mounted in the center. Perhaps, if the player had a Crawford cluster, I could understand it. But otherwise, no.
YMMV |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Jul 2008 12:14 pm
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I have zero interest in justifying my questions about flags or my use of them.
Back to my thread. Bo---those are very much what I envision when I think of flags. Some experiments have shown me that I don't need them to be as large as that. Which makes me think that if I can find a way to fold an extension over on itself so that it fits almost within its own footprint then I might be in business.
These things germinate in my mind for an ungodly amount of time before I'm ready to make a move. Hopefully some decent ideas or some voila! moments will present themselves---ones that are within my means, skill & tool-wise. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 16 Jul 2008 6:44 pm
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Donny, they could have been mounted closer to the rear apron, like my old MSA but after playing the Derby for 18 months, I have not noticed any problem at all. They are in the perfect location for me, with very few adjustments.. I tweaked them a little to fit my body and my fat knees as soon as I got it and haven't touched it since.
The older apron mounted MSA style was ok too, but I never liked the way I had to extend my left leg to the get to pedal 1, I had the lkl adjusted way out to give me room without hitting the lever. And the bushings wore out after 10 years and got too much play, I think it was the torque from being so close to me.
I like the levers set inside, I don't even think about it, the flags are exactly where they need to be.
It took about 3 days to get past the parallax view thing (looking at the E neck from further away) and no being able to see the F# (it disappeared into the shiney neck edge).. after 3 days it was like an old friend.
Jon, I tried an Emmons with the fold down angle iron, while it was compact and did the job, the edge and nut & bolt dug right into my knee.
These flags are 4" tall x 2" and they have a bend at about 3/4 to 1" to the right just where you see the straight line on them. |
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