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Topic: Nashville Charts - Learning LOTS of New Songs - Right Now |
Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2008 6:42 am |
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I played steel at a gig this weekend at a local theater. It was an Americana Show featuring mostly patriotic country songs... Have You Forgotten, Independence Day, etc.
Most of them were songs that I had heard on the radio or grew up listening to. But some of them were a bit more obscure, at least to me. For example, one guy did the Ray Price version of Bridge Over Troubled Water. Nice song but including the show and practice, I've heard it about 4 times now.
We charted Bridge and a few other tunes with the Nashville system but that lead to another problem. I have a good background in music theory including a minor in music from my college days but I found myself unable to do the mental calculations of what the chord should be (for that key) and then find that chord on the E9 neck in time to play it. That was not a problem on songs with only 3 or 4 or 5 chords. But Bridge has a lot of borrowed chords and they're all "in the wrong places."
For that particular song (with all its strange chord changes) I cheated. I wrote out some steel tab on my Nashville chart and when it came to the tricky parts, I just went into tab mode.
Having the charts and tab in front of me certainly made it easier to get through the night without any huge blunders. It just got me to thinking...
"How do the rest of you guys handle it when you have to learn 30 new songs in one day?"
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Joe Calabrese
From:
New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2008 6:47 am Re: Nashville Charts - Learning LOTS of New Songs - Right No
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| Gary Shepherd wrote: |
"How do the rest of you guys handle it when you have to learn 30 new songs in one day?" |
Personally, I turn down my volume during the measures I'm not sure of. 
Reminds me of the old joke:
"How do you get a guitar player to turn down" ?
"Put a chart in front of him"
Good luck sound like a fun gig.
Joe
_________________
Peace,
JC
http://www.obsmusic.com/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=124287 |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Jul 2008 6:55 am
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Before the show, one of the guys saw that I was a little worried about my parts and asked if I was okay. I showed him what I planned to play on the parts I was unsure about. It was a blank piece of paper.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 4:41 am
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If I understand you correctly, it seems you're mentally translating the numbers back into letter chord names while you're playing the song. As you've discovered, a fast or complex tune makes that pretty difficult. The question I have is, why you would want to do it this way?
Number charts work best when you can find any chord on your guitar based on that number. When you do it that way, you're thinking in terms of intervals rather than letters. Those intervals never change; only the starting point does. So, for example, if you're in the key of G and the chart calls for a 3b you instantly know where every 3b lies on your guitar. And you do this based on its relationship (fret-wise) to the 1 chord.
If you have to add the mental step of saying, "We're in G. What the heck is a 3b chord in the key of G?" -- the song just went past you.
| Quote: |
| But Bridge has a lot of borrowed chords and they're all "in the wrong places." |
But what if you knew instantly where any of those "borrowed" chords lie? Because although the actual fret location may change, they would always be in the same physical relationship (intervals) from the 1 chord. Only your starting point changes. If you understand the number system and how those intervals translate to your guitar you'll never hunt for a chord again.
Reece Anderson has an absolutely brilliant way to explain all this and you might consider contacting him to purchase some of his instructional material. And you're not too far away from his place in Texas. You could spend a day in a private lesson at his house and I guarantee it would make a huge difference in your mental understanding of your guitar. |
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Alan Rudd
From:
Ardmore, Oklahoma
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 5:50 am
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| Hey, Gary! Saw your pictures in that stars and stripes shirt on the show last weekend. I was actually in Ardmore, but was unable to come. Sherry and Jim Wheatley are old friends of mine. We used to do a show together like that in Ada back in the 80's. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 7:18 am
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Hi, Gary, it's in what Jeff Agnew says.
The trick is in realizing that we all play in the number system anyway, even if we think of it another way. That's how songs work.
The best start is sitting down to your guitar and figuring out what the chords you know do musically. (in numbers)
For example, no-pedals G at the third fret, move back 2 frets with B pedal and E lowering lever for D7- translates to that being a 57 position from any no pedal chord. A pedal E minor at third fret translates to 6m at a no pedals position, 3m at a pedals-down position, 2m 2 frets back from a pedals-down position, etc.
You'll be surprised how quickly you can reframe your thinking about chords into numbers- also greatly useful for playing by ear as an Am can have a different function in different keys, but a 6m always sounds the same within the key you're in, as does a 2m etc. |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 9:33 am
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Jeff, I know what you're saying and that's how I do it most of the time. Probably 70% of the time, I don't even know what key I'm playing in. I just know the chord progression in terms of intervals.
There were just a couple of tunes in this show that I hadn't heard before and I couldn't get the "the sound" in my head.
I suppose it would be good practice to just throw down some numbers in Band In A Box and play along. You know, that program has a feature to "invent" a song. And it will also display the chord progression in numbers, rather than chords.
I've used it a few times to make up some pretty nice melodies for pedal steel solos. I know that BIAB has some pretty cheesy licks sometimes but you'd be amazed at what a great tool it can be for exploring musical ideas.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 10:27 am
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when i'm confronted w: a tune that i don't know or understand, i make a chart out - period
i write it out in the key, i'm to play it in & add the roman numerals as well
i prefer havin' the chart at rehearsal in order to work out any nuances or mistakes w: the musicians
once i know the tunes, i don't necessarily use the charts but i do have them w: me |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 11:55 am
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Working in all types of situations calls for some adapting. Bar gigs or straight traditional country, never a chart. Recording sessions, number system chart with the exception that if theres a really oddball chage or complex form, I write out that particular one and highlight it with a yellow marker.
Theater productions, I find I don't need the chart after a couple of shows. I usually draw in a flag if
there's a place I feel I need to really be on my toes.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jul 2008 12:28 pm
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| gary..your method of numbers with some tab added makes sense to me...sometimes i'll add chord names to the numbers i'm confused about...i've even drawn pictures to remind me which direction the steel licks go....whatever works to keep you in the ballpark is cool with me....of course, we're obviously not trying to steel paul franklin's job...are we? |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 3 Jul 2008 6:02 am
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| Quote: |
| There were just a couple of tunes in this show that I hadn't heard before and I couldn't get the "the sound" in my head. |
If you have a chart, and you know where to find any of its chords on your guitar, you really don't need to have "the sound" in your head. It seems like you're still playing by ear and using the chart for reference. Which is fine, but will leave you in the dust when the song ventures into unfamiliar territory. The beauty of knowing the chart numbers and where they lie on your guitar is that you can sight read a tune you've never heard before, or a progression you've never heard.
I think your idea of using BIAB to practice with is outstanding. Set it to display numbers, then select some songs from the songbooks (if you have them). Try some pop standards, especially. You'll be accomplishing two things: training your ear to hear the sound of those unfamiliar progressions and, more importantly, where to find the numbered chords on your guitar.
I have one more training tool to recommend, and it's something I've seen Reece do with his students. Pick a key, then at random, think of a number. Find the closest location of that number chord. Then find all the instances of that chord on the neck, up and down from your starting position. As you're thinking of numbered chords to find, they don't have to make musical sense. And probably shouldn't, because the more bizzare the interval the more unfamiliar the move will be and the more you'll have to think. But I guarantee you that once you master this skill to where it becomes automatic, you'll never be at a loss to find a chord again, no matter what the song.
Seriously, if I can learn it, I know you can. It's an extremely liberating thing and will free your playing up in ways you can't imagine. |
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