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Topic: F#-G# or G#-F#? |
Bob Bowden
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 2:10 pm |
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| Which change do you find more useful, G#-F# on the 6th string or F#-G# on the 7th string? |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 3:15 pm
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I had an F#-G on a student guitar which I found more useful than the G#-F# change I have now.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Cliff Kane
From:
the late great golden state
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 3:24 pm
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| I use the 6th string change more, but if you're wondering which one to add, why not have both? I have the 6th string change on RKL and the 7th string change on RKR. (Got the idea from Ricky Davis) |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 3:31 pm
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| Cliff Kane wrote: |
| I use the 6th string change more, but if you're wondering which one to add, why not have both? I have the 6th string change on RKL and the 7th string change on RKR. (Got the idea from Ricky Davis) |
Great idea! I think I'll try it out when I get home tonight.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 3:53 pm
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
| I had an F#-G on a student guitar which I found more useful than the G#-F# change I have now. |
I also prefer F# to G natural. The F# to G# change gives you some licks. The F# to G natural gives you a 7th chord and a couple of scale positions. I agree that it's much more useful.
I have the change on a vertical, because I always use it in conjunction with one of the pedals, and pressing a pedal down gives me some leverage to use against the vertical. It makes the vertical much easier to use.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 5:11 pm
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Although the F# - G change was not the original question, I also have and use this change often on my LKV.
Back on topic, I have both the 6th string G# - F# lower and the 7th string F# - G# raise (Just added recently). I like and use both, but I use the 6th string change much more often than the 7th string raise. It is my 3rd most used lever (even more than the second string lowers) |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 6:07 pm
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I really like the G# to F# on string 6, but I think it ruins the string 1 whole step and string 2 half step raises if they're all on the same lever. So now I'm considering putting the whole step raise on String 7.
(again...after discarding it a few years ago)
So many cool changes, so few knees.  |
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Bob Bowden
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 7:46 pm
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| Cliff Kane wrote: |
| I use the 6th string change more, but if you're wondering which one to add, why not have both? I have the 6th string change on RKL and the 7th string change on RKR. (Got the idea from Ricky Davis) |
I might have to try this since, coincidentally, there is an extra bellcrank currently mounted on the RKR crossrod. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 8:27 pm
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I have the 7th string F# to G on LKV and the 6th string G# to F# on LKR. I use them both a lot. On guitars where I only have four knee levers (no vertical) I go with the 6th F# lower with a half stop for G.
(Only one of my seven (!) steels has built-in split capability, and I knew nothing about the "extra rod" method of split tuning for most of my steel "career", so I don't really relate to "splits".) |
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Gary Shepherd
From:
Fox, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2008 11:33 pm
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G# to F# on string 6. I'd put it on string 3 too if it would lower that far.
_________________
Gary Shepherd
Carter D-10 & Peavey Nashville 1000
www.16tracks.com |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 1:27 am
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| I find that if the G# to F# is on the same lever as 1 raise F# to G# you have a conflict of notes going on at the same time. I raise both F#'s on RKL a whole tone . I would like to add the G# to F# lower but can't find a good place to do it right now. I am thinking another inside lever on the right knee... |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 4:58 am
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| 6th string G# to F#. That lower, along with the raise to A on that string allows many great chords and moves. Wouldn't be without it. Joe Kline tried to get me that same move on the 3rd string, but it just wouldn't lower enough. |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 5:29 am
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6th str. G#->F# lower.
I like it because it puts the 9th in suspension, and the default position resolves it.
I like it so much it's on P1.
Tony, I tell ya, just move your A pedal to P3 and add the G# to F# lower on P1. It's the future!
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Those that say don't know; those that know don't say.--Buddy Emmons |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 7:29 am
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I raise my 7th. string F#-G# using a pedal. The pedal next to it raises my 6th. sting G#-B and the 5th. B-C#. My 9th string is tuned open C#. It gives me a nice E6th. I play a 12 string Fezzy. Joe
Last edited by Joe Miraglia on 13 Jun 2008 7:37 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Greg Vincent
From:
Folsom, CA USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 7:34 am
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I like the G# down to F# on string six, but on most guitars you are stuck with having to use a plain string there if you want to accomplish that change, and I'm really getting sick of that "thunky" sounding plain sixth --and you often have to chase its tuning around.
-GV |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 8:41 am
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It seems to me that there is little that can be done bu dropping the 6th string to F# that cannot also be done by using other pedals and moving the bar.
Never having had the change, I could be mistaken about this, but I bet that if I sat down with some of you guys who drop the 6th string, with out steels face to face, I could play 90% of the things you play with that change. Perhaps not as smoothly.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 9:27 am
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| But Mike! Sometimes smooth is the order of the day! The notes are all there. We've got an F# string. But going to that string negates the smooth and gradual lower of the G# to F#. Very often it's not about what notes are played, but how we get to those notes. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 9:29 am
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As a very primitive player, the only thing I use the RKL 6th string lower for is the "I gotta pee" move in conjunction with the LKR to get the V chord. 
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 10:22 am
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
| As a very primitive player, the only thing I use the RKL 6th string lower for is the "I gotta pee" move in conjunction with the LKR to get the V chord. |
Assuming you are referring to the E-Eb change when you say RKR, the same chord is available 2 frets back with the A pedal and E-F knee lever.
This brings up another subject. Since different players use different knee levers for the various changes, we should refer to the changes themselves, rather than the knee levers where they are located.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 10:33 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| But Mike! Sometimes smooth is the order of the day! The notes are all there. We've got an F# string. But going to that string negates the smooth and gradual lower of the G# to F#. Very often it's not about what notes are played, but how we get to those notes. |
True, but you can also get that gradual lower by playing the 6th string and moving the bar, sometimes in conjunction with using one of the pedals or a different knee lever. You don't need a separate lever to achieve that.
One of the things I like about the Winnie Winston book is the emphasis on combining bar movement with the pedals.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 10:40 am
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My 6th string lower is on a lever by itself (with 2 C6th changes) on RKR. The F# to G# on string 7 is on a second LKL that also raises string 1 to G# and string 2 to E. No conflicts this way.
The 6th lower allows you to get a major chord 2 frets down from the A&B pedal position. Example, 12th fret A&B down to fret 10 with the 6th string lowered to F# and the E strings lowered to D#. Both A chords but different voicings. Then you can let off the 6th string lower and hit your B pedal to get a nice flowing movement from the 5th tone to the 6th and finally the dom 7th. Can't do that as smoothly using the F# on string 7 and jumping to string 6 to accomplish this move.
This follows the same logic some use for having the E lowers and raises on different knees so they can make the move from the D# to the F smoothly. Smoothly flowing between the different notes is the whole point. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 1:38 pm
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
| Assuming you are referring to the E-Eb change when you say RKR, the same chord is available 2 frets back with the A pedal and E-F knee lever. |
Yes, but what if I'm at the first fret? And yes, RKR = 6-string G# to F# lower and LKR = 4th string lower E to Eb lower. The "I gotta pee move" is a far more evocative way of saying it.
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 3:17 pm
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| Mike, I think you oughta put that change on one of your guitars, and fool with it. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised. It is a Buddy Emmons change, after all. I built a knee lever for my 72 Bud, a month after I bought it, after reading about his cope in, I think, Winnie's book. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 6:23 pm
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Mike, I think you oughta put that change on one of your guitars |
John, my guitars all have 7 pedals, 6 knee levers and a wrist lever. There's no place to put anything else.
I have a friend who has this change, and who is awaiting delivery on a new Millennium, which he decided to get after I loaned him mine. Maybe when he gets his new guitar he'll loan me his old one for a few days so I can fool around with the change.
But I gotta say, when I started playing I thought about it, and how convenient it would be to be able to hit the B Major (on the open strings) with the same grips I'd use on the other chords, but the longer played and the more I learned, the less important it seemed.
I can see how in certain situations it would be nice to have, but I don't feel it's necessary, and certainly not as useful as the F# to G natural change, which I find indispensable.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 13 Jun 2008 10:41 pm
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| Seems to me that lowering G#-F# stays in the chord, as Charlie said. I see raising 7 as more of a "lick" thing. |
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