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Topic: Fender 400 questions |
Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2008 5:25 pm |
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I just bought one here and I have never seen any instrument in better condition, even the case is pristine. Nice older man moving to Florida who says it never left the house and believe me it didnt, I would post pics but Its above my head.
Question, Its a sunburst he told me he bought it in the mid to late 60s it has four pedals. I paid 500 bucks. is that an okay price for one in immaculate condition? and I intend to set it up c6 with the pedals being like 5-8 hon my sho bud, can that be done? I see how easy it is to change the copedant so I figure it is.
Thanks,
Ben |
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Joel Meredith
From:
Portland,Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2008 5:29 pm
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| Yeah, good price! Just look on ebay and see how expensive a 4 pedal 400 can get. |
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Terje Brattsveen
From:
Nashville, TN. USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2008 6:04 pm
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I paid $ 1000 for this Fender 400( 1964 ) at Gruhn Guitars in Nashville in January this year. It has 6 pedals and is in excellent shape. I have had some minor problems, but there are several people here on the forum who really know these guitars. Just post a question if you have one, and you will get several really intelligent answers. Jim Sliff is one, Basihl from England is another. There are also several people on the west coast who have been very helpful. Good Luck!!!
Terje. |
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Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2008 4:45 am
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| Thanks, Guys I am happy to get this guitar, the guy also had a blackface bandmaster that just left with the big old 2/15 cab for....hold your breath... 250 I was a little bummed not to get that but really happy about the steel, I never seem to find the deals until now and just in time to stimulate the economy!!! anyone else care to put their 2cents in? |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Jun 2008 6:29 am
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You did good! "Immaculate" is what the collectors call "mint", and a 400 in such condition is worth about twice what you paid. Rarely do you find these sunburst models without a few big chips on them, and without considerable "checking" in the finish. One in truly mint condition would have no chips, no rust, no flaked chrome, and maybe some very light checking in the finish.
I wouldn't do any modifications (like adding knee levers) to such a guitar. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2008 6:38 am
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Ben - you scored a great deal. If you can describe it a bit we can tell you WHICH 400 it is - there are two types. Long-scales were made from '58 to '64 and have chrome stamped pedals, rectangular Jazzmaster-like pickups, a bar or roller bridge with separate "fingers" to pull the strings and a 24 1/2" scale. Short-scale models were made from '64 until the end of the run (cataloged until the 80's but production stopped in the 70's) and have a 23" scale, integrated changed fingers/bridge, rounder Jaguar-type pickup and black cast pedals.
If it's a 'burst it's likely a short-scale. They're wonderful guitars and the easiest to set up of any guitar ever made; you can change tunings and string pulls in minutes! The only downside to the short-scale models is parts availability; there were far more long-scales made and hence more "lost" parts that show up for sale. Some of us are working on replacements and within the next 6 months should have either parts or methods to make almost everything.
Your copedent (tuning/changes) should be easy to set up. That's one of the popular methods; a few do the top-8 or bottom-8 of E9, but that takes some surgery for knee levers and to my ears doesn't sound as good on these guitars. Many others have gravitated (me included to versions of Sneaky Pete's B6, which gives you a sort of cross between a C6 and E9; a 6th tuning but with some E9 style changes, and it's also tuned a 4th lower than E9 - more in a guitar range, which sounds REALLY strong. C6 will as well.
If you decide to add knee levers it's not hard, and $150-200 kits are NOT needed. Drilling holes in these is also not prohibited by the "vintage police" like it is with 6-strings, as they don't have the same kind of collectible status. But prices are rising rapidly (you got a price from about 7-8 years ago on a mint one!) so who knows? Still, knee lever additions seem to be acceptable "mods".
If you need any setup advice, feel free to email And he's a link to the Fender Steel Forum - it's not a busy place,but has some great resources and a good core group of guys - Fender players stick together and help each other out, trading parts, sometimes GIVING away parts - whatever it takes to keep 'em running.
Please ignore the spam posts on the forum - it's been targeted a few times and will be cleaned up shortly.
Welcome to a very unique and fun club of cableheads!
http://scaryoak.com/forum/index.php
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
Last edited by Jim Sliff on 14 Jun 2008 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Jun 2008 4:44 pm
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| Quote: |
| Drilling holes in these is also not prohibited by the "vintage police" like it is with 6-strings, as they don't have the same kind of collectable status. But prices are rising rapidly (you got a price from about 7-8 years ago on a mint one!) so who knows? Still, knee lever additions seem to be acceptable "mods". |
Yes, "who knows". While the average semi-beater might not lose any value, "mint" Fender steels are becoming very rare, and I'd not go drilling holes and adding elaborate rod setups to what will be a collector guitar. How much will they appreciate? Hard to say, but I'd guess the prices will easily double within the next 8-10 years. I know that, in other areas, I've done mods that hurt the collector values, but that was back in my younger days. Since I'm older now, it seems I have a higher regard for older things than I used to, and I'm not nearly as prone to "random butchery" as I once was.
Luckily, the Fender steel lends itself very well to adding levers without drilling the wood body or the frame of the guitar full of holes (provided you go about it in the right way). Levers can be added, and later removed, with little or no evidence they've ever been there. |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2008 6:08 pm
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I had a 400 in the70's. Got it used, but it was pristeen. I don.t know what year it was made, but it was a burst from natural, to red, to black. It had the chrome pedals. I don't have any idea how it was tuned, but I tuned it to the top 8 E9. It was my first attempt on a steel. When I ordered my LDG, I sold it to a girl, in the Cleveland area. She also wanted to try it out, and I thought the price was right. Sold it to her for $225, with a old Masco tube amp. Wonder where it is now.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2008 9:04 am
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I do agree with Donny that major mods should not be made in mint guitars, even though they're no "collectible" yet. Pedal steels seem to be a bit different that 6-strings though, in that minor mods are not a deterrent or a devaluing factor ( a pickup rout would be a major factor, while a few small screw holes for a knee lever isn't a factor, at least right now). And with Fender steels in particular, knee-lever mods seem to be pretty well accepted as they overcome a deficiency rather than being a "hack".
But I see the point and would probably not want to drill a mint guitar - however, I have yet to see one; almost every one I've seen either has a hole or two from a knee mod, finish chips/crazing, or some other small detail that takes it out if the "mint" category.
Regardless, I'd really like to hear about Donny's "no holes" knee lever idea. It's something I'd post over on the Fender steel forum.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ben Edmonds
From:
Greenfield, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2008 2:47 am
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Hey guys,
Maybe you can help. I may be able to get some pics to aid. I got the guitar and all the moving parts need to be cleaned and lubed. There is no dirt only this powdery greenish corrosion on the metal parts, I think its some kind of dried up lube because its only on the moving parts....anyway its affecting the pedals they stick so I have cleaned all of it and I want to know what lube you guys suggest and any other tips you may have. I plugged this thing into my twin and it has a great tone, I am so happy with it I think this will be a fun axe, I really had not figured I would really play it but I think now I absolutley have to, it is really a unique sound |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2008 9:01 pm
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Ben, after doing your cleaning then flush everything with lighter fluid (naphtha). The plastic Ronson sueeze bottles work well. It'll flush out and residual junk without damaging any parts on that guitar. Wipe off any residue and let it dry.
Then lube every moving part, including spots where cables rub, with TriFlow teflon lube. You need only a small amount. The oils in it dry out fairly rapidly and you're left with a thing Teflon film. On some guitars it makes a dramatic difference.
Avoid ANY oils on a Fender. The pulleys and levers gum up with dirt that stick to oils (of any kind) and it will make the guitar feel sluggish and be hard to clean - eventually the large pulley might have to be dismantled and the rings cleaned individually if oil is used repeatedly. I do it on almost every one I get here - the oils/dirt cause the pulley wheels to not turn at all, and when they turn freely it feels like a new guitar.
TriFlow is at most hardware stores and bike shops. Again, you do not need a lot - just a small amount every 2-3 months is plenty.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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