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Topic: Stick to the tune---WHADAYATHINK? |
Jerry Johnston
From:
Roscommon,MI. USA
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Posted 1 May 2008 7:24 pm |
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| There is a trend in country music I do not agree with. It seems that when an instrumentalist takes a part in a song, (whether it is steel, lead, fiddle--whatever) they try to cram every hot lick they've ever heard into a four bar intro or eight bar break, regardless of the tune. I feel the composer chose that tune because he felt it best fit the lyrics. I try to respect the writers work by playing the tune as written with as much accuracy, feeling, and tone quality as am capable of. If you don't care for the tune, don't play the song or write your own. WHADAYATHINK? |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 May 2008 8:06 pm
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..
Last edited by Jim Phelps on 2 May 2008 5:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 May 2008 8:49 pm hi
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I believe in playing the melody, but how about the breat in City Lights it will put chill bumps on you, again Weldon on Once a Day, was play the melody and put chills bimps on. That break on city Lights is my all time favourite.
How about LLoyd Greens fills on Charlie Pride's Kaliga (spelling)???. A lot of Jimmy Days best fills were pure schale.
Now you see I cannot spell I will quit.
ernie |
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David Hartley
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Posted 1 May 2008 9:47 pm WHADOOITHINK
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I am a melody man but there's usually a couple of songs during the evening where you can put all the licks in, ie..Rocky Top. for a fast burn out
and Remember that 'Help me make it through the night' with a really great C6th break in, I think it must have been Emmons? I can remember the steel lead break but not who's version it was? Anyway, that never followed a melody, but what a great break in a slow song. Someone please tell me which version I am thinking of ?
David Hartley |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 1 May 2008 11:19 pm
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It looks like so far everyone, including me, is substantially in agreement with you Jerry. But we all do also seem to agree that there is a time and a place for hot licks. I would say, though that usually when playing the melody some embellishment is a very good idea lest one wants to be known as uninteresting. My playing is almost always embellished melody.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2008 12:21 am
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How about this thought..
Many times players play phrases or hot licks because they didn't actually spend time with there Instrument and learn where the melody is and where it comes from. I'm talking any Instrument.
Playing melody on the fly is a totally different tool set and in many cases much more difficult than noodling. Additionally , playing melody requires a mindset of simplicity and not filling every hole with a note or 6.
that being said, Rocky Top and those tunes just like it, are the perfect songs to play 300 notes in a measure  I'm up to about 6 notes in the measure, I only have 294 to go !
Last edited by Tony Prior on 2 May 2008 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Antolina
From:
Dunkirk NY
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Posted 2 May 2008 1:33 am
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| How about this thought..Many times players play phrases or hot licks because they didn't actually spend time with there Instrument and learn where the melody is and where it comes from. |
Tony, as usual you make a lot of sense. I suspect (in some cases) you may have a valid point. Shot Jackson was fond of saying, "just play the melody". Of course, some will say... that was another era.
_________________
The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.
Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4
RC Antolina |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 May 2008 3:03 am
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Music is a conversation. Just because you can't understand that "conversation" doesn't mean that others can't.
| Tony Prior wrote: |
Many times players play phrases or hot licks because they didn't actually spend time with there Instrument and learn where the melody is and where it comes from. I'm talking any Instrument. |
That's quite true, you should be able to play the melody note-for-note (and most of the hot-lick guys really can). However, some players like to use the old..."just play the melody" thing as an excuse to never try anything original or faster than a quarter-note. Learn to try fast stuff and hot licks as well as playing it simple and straight. Also, while you're learning that simple melody line, learn to play it with chords, too. (That way, you won't always sound like a one-fingered piano player whenever you're playing the melody.)
Lastly, and this is very important, learn to use your imagination! That means coming up with something original, and learning (surprise, surprise) that improvising isn't just hot licks, using fancy pedal moves, and playing lots of scales. It's finding something different and interesting that actually adds to the song, something that says something special. Want a good example? Buddy's intro to "Night Life" isn't the melody line, by a long shot. It also isn't a fancy pedal lick or blistering scale. But, look what it does to that song! That simple intro makes the song - to the point that if you hear a version of the song now without that same intro (and there are some out there), it sounds, somehow, incomplete and dull. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 2 May 2008 5:24 am
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Tony P. Said it. If you don't know the instrument, you will be challenged. The better you know the neck, the better off you will be, having much to draw from. That being said, Donny has it nailed--you need imagination to use your knowledge to MAKE the song.
If I might quote Ricky Davis, who quoted Lloyd Green, "Try to be the other voice in the song".
Last edited by James Morehead on 2 May 2008 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 5:26 am
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| Sometimes there just don't seem to be a melody........at least it is very hard to find.....a bunch of mono-tones in a chord. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 6:01 am
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| If there's a required signature lick, I'll play it. All other times, I express myself. I would find the whole act/art of making music very boring otherwise. I play what and how I feel at every moment. |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 6:40 am
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I always remember the saying (less is More)and try to live by that.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Alan Tanner
From:
Near Dayton, Ohio
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Posted 2 May 2008 6:58 am
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| Over the years I have played with steel pickers, harmionica cats, fiddlers, and guitar players who played loud, never STOPPED playing thru the whole song, reguardless of how many other lead instruments were on stage. I think less is more BUT depending on music genre, speed, etc you must be flexible. Most western swing cries out for some scaling and jamming in between, whereas most slower straight country does not. I have worked with guys who want to play the melody WHILE the singer is singing. Now that REALLY sounds lame on MOST tunes.........IMO |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 7:09 am
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The reason you don't play the tune for your solo is that the listener has already heard it and it going to hear it again before the song is over. Why be the master of the obvious.
The only time I see fit to play the melody of the song for a solo is when the player can't play anything else as interesting.
Just playing the melody on a solo is just an easy way out if the situation is such that you have the freedom to play what you want. Take advantage of it and do something. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2008 7:36 am
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I don't think anyone is saying "DON'T ADLIB " at least I'm not. My position is that if you don't know where the melody is then you can't play it if you choose to. Then you can only ad lib.
Playing a two or three note Melody line is also part of being creative, is it not ?
Good thing we are all different.
tp
Last edited by Tony Prior on 2 May 2008 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Derrick Frank
From:
Berkshire, England
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Posted 2 May 2008 7:57 am Melody
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| You may not agree but, I have allways played the melody, but I like to play around it, so the folks and the band can stay with the tune, but I also like a little of me in there, the odd run or frill, as thats what playing the steel is all about, as long as you don't over do it.or try to compete with the vocal. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 May 2008 8:45 am
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Depending upon the band, and the audience, it's often a good idea, when soloing, to quote just enough of the melody in your solo, so that nobody gets lost. For most audiences, if you come back periodically and 'touch base' with the melody briefly, they feel reassured that they're not lost and then they're more willing to listen to the rest, and they enjoy it more.
It also helps any band members who are less familiar with the song or the changes. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 May 2008 9:00 am
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Last edited by Donny Hinson on 2 May 2008 10:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 9:00 am
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Good point Jim. Actually I have listened to recordings where the band got off on such a long tangent that I didn't remember what song they were playing. If you stay away from the melody too much there is a danger that what will differetiate one of your songs from another is the speed at which it's played.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 May 2008 9:12 am
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I dunno, for me I prefer to choose when to embellish and when to stay close to home . Sometimes I choose to go where I've never been, sometimes it just seems natural to stay at home on the front porch. I guess it comes down to the moment and whats going on around me.
It still gets back to this, if you can't play the basic simple melody you are missing a great asset.
but hey, this is just one view. |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 9:25 am
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Wow, great thoughts from Donny H., Tony P. and Jim C.
There's plenty to digest in any piece to use toward composing your solo, and it's like art...I mean we're musical artists, right?
To me the melody is the starting point and from there it depends on the song...no hard or fast rules.
This strikes a "chord" with me because the two 6 stringers in our band don't (won't?) compose a solo around the melody. You could take any one of their rides and put it in a different song and it would still work OK. They can however come up with it quickly.
I on the other hand can't ad lib quickly, but I can compose a decent solo in advance and be ready to use it! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 May 2008 10:11 am
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| Quote: |
| Playing a two or three note Melody line is also part of being creative, is it not? |
Sure, but only if you play it like it hasn't been played before. I hear lots of great steelers at steel shows and on recordings. These guys can copy every Franklin "slick lick", every Emmons "hot run", and every smooth Tommy White pedal combination. What most of them can't do is play something original, something different, something in a way nobody else does.
Surprise me once in awhile - that's all I'm trying to say.
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Bo Legg
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Posted 2 May 2008 10:50 am
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Jim Cohen wrote
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| Depending upon the band, and the audience, it's often a good idea, when soloing, to quote just enough of the melody in your solo, so that nobody gets lost. |
Jim pretty well sums up my approach.
/(A)avoid the melody (G)at all(A) cost but/(A) just enough so you (G)don’t get(A) lost
If it/(A) sounds like this I’ll(G) play it like(A) this and if it/(A) sounds like that I’ll(G) play it like(A) that just/(G)phone it (A)in/(G)phone it(A)in/(G)phone it (A)in/(no chord)tut da da la da pay me/ |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 2 May 2008 11:49 am
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I think its pretty in a sad slow song to pick up where the singer left off, and let all the intensity of the steels self-harmony push the emotions up a bit. I think Tom Brumely was the master of that.
I hate when a musician pushes a solo so that it looks like the purpose is to impress people with skill,versus trying to move people with something pretty.
I think a solo should add to a song,, not take away from it.
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 2 May 2008 12:04 pm
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Both ways are equally acceptable depending on the song. I prefer to stay close or right on the melody on slow stuff, but like the liberty to burn on a fast song, as long as it fits. I think playing the melody all night long would bore the heck out of me.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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