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Topic: Tricone observations |
Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 23 Apr 2008 5:09 am |
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Well, I finally received and put on a set of the D'Addario EFT13 "Flattops," and all I can say is WOW... what a difference in all aspects. They cost a little bit more, but worth it. That extra bit of smoothness by grinding off the round edge a bit mellows the tone slightly (in a good nahe nahe way), and really makes the tone sweet, with far less noise (although some still there). I definitely see a Tribo-Tone bar in my future. 
I'm still having a bridge issue, though. When I tune the low strings to high-bass GBD, the extra tension is actually pushing the bridge down just barely enough to cause the higher strings to just barely touch the bridge cover, creating bzzzzzzzzzz... Would the bottom side of the bridge sanded down slightly (I'm talking about 1/32" to 1/16" or so) on the treble side rectify this? I already took it down just a tad when I changed strings, but I did it exactly evenly.
I have to say, the tone of this Republic is far better than I ever would have expected. Bell brass, baby... It surely does not have the cachet of a vintage National (which I intend on owning someday... sigh...), but for now, this is a giggable sounding instrument.
Which leads me to another question: what kind of mic is best for live mic'ing of a tricone, and where is the best placement? I have a bunch of 57's and 58's, but nothing that requires phantom power.
Thanks.
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2008 9:54 am
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I believe Bob Brozman uses a Neuman 150 KM. In getting deeper into the construction and materials of the various tricones, I can see no reason why the Republic should be in any way inferior to the National. National has the mystique because John Dopyera, the inventor of the mechanical amplifier/resonator, was the founder of the National Guitar Company. He went on to found the Dobro (Dopyera Brothers) company during a metal shortage due to one of the wars. There are also political considerations that I won't get into here. I do share the political concerns. But I bought a Republic anyway. With which I'm very happy by the way. It just doesn't do any good for me to refuse to buy a guitar when so many bits and pieces of so many things are being made in places like China without anybody even knowing about it. And there are so many other products that are just about impossible to find being made in a country with responsible labor and environmental laws. I just don't see a boycott solving this problem.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 23 Apr 2008 10:01 am
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| Quote: |
| Would the bottom side of the bridge sanded down slightly (I'm talking about 1/32" to 1/16" or so) on the treble side rectify this? I already took it down just a tad when I changed strings, but I did it exactly evenly. |
I would check with a luthier in your area. I'm sure there's someone in your area who could answer these questions with the guitar in hand better than we could from farther away.
| Quote: |
| what kind of mic is best for live mic'ing of a tricone, and where is the best placement? I have a bunch of 57's and 58's, but nothing that requires phantom power. |
I've had good luck with just about every microphone I've used, but the SM57 is a good choice. I point the microphone at a place just above the 15th fret, aimed at the top sound hole. Then I move around to adjust my sound accordingly.
See Bob Brozman's tips for amplifying resophonic guitars on his web site.
http://www.bobbrozman.com/soundhints.html
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Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2008 1:57 pm
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"the extra tension is actually pushing the bridge down just barely enough to cause the higher strings to just barely touch the bridge cover, creating bzzzzzzzzzz..."
Is there any need to be worried about deforming/crushing a cone? Should you use lighter bass strings for High G tuning? |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 23 Apr 2008 4:41 pm high bass G
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John -- that's a good question, and one which I posed in another thread. I was told by many folks that I needn't worry.
It's weird, but I finally tuned it up again with this batch of strings to high bass G, and it's now working fine. I seriously wonder if a bridge has to 'set' for bit before one can tune it up to that tuning (or maybe just my tricone does)? The fact is, it's all good now. I've been practicing some old 20's era stuff, and it has that sound, well, at least 90% of it.
It's a beautiful thing.
By the way, I HIGHLY recommend those D'Addario strings, if you want a more vintage "Hawaiian" style tone. They have a tough, yet mellow tone that's just right, at least for me.
TJW |
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Bob Stone
From:
Gainesville, FL, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 4:33 am
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Hi Todd,
I'm a big fan of the Flat Tops too.
As for a mic for your Tricone, it might be worth checking out some of the inexpensive 1" diaphragm condenser mics on the market today. Some are selling for less than $100. (I'm assuming that anything Neuman makes is a bit much for your budget.)
Enjoy your Tricone. They are lots of fun. |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 7:30 am Mics
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| Bob Stone wrote: |
Hi Todd,
I'm a big fan of the Flat Tops too.
As for a mic for your Tricone, it might be worth checking out some of the inexpensive 1" diaphragm condenser mics on the market today. Some are selling for less than $100. (I'm assuming that anything Neuman makes is a bit much for your budget.)
Enjoy your Tricone. They are lots of fun. |
Thanks, Bob. Yeah, Neumann's are great, but a bit more than I can afford on a musician's wage. A friend of mine tells me that the Russian Oktava's are great (http://www.oktavausa.com/ProductsPages/MK-012-01.html). He bought a matched pair a few years ago when they first came on the scene, and loves them. I think he got both for just $99!
I figure a couple hundred should get me a decent enough one for what I'm doing with it. Thanks for the info.
TJW |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 7:32 am
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Shure Beta 57s are great for Tricone miking in sound reinforcement, but regular old 57s are fine, too. I've used them for years, strategically placed.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Eric Barker
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 8:30 am
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Todd, I sanded about 3/32" off the bottom of my bridge with no problems. It sure makes string changes and bridge adjustments easier and I'm still 3/8" above the last fret. There was no effect on tone.
I'll have to give those flattops a try. |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 11:30 am
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| how do the flattops compare with the durability of say newtones or John pearse bronze or nickels? |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 12:13 pm D'Addario Flattops
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
| how do the flattops compare with the durability of say newtones or John pearse bronze or nickels? |
Not sure about durability, as I've only had them on there since last Friday, but I sure am loving the tone I'm getting from them. On the package, there's a chart showing bright on the left, and mellow on the right, like this:
BRIGHT ================|======== MELLOW
The tone of the Flattops falls around just right of the middle towards mellow. They're perfect for the Hawaiian tone, IMO. I tend to pick mostly around the 17th to 19th frets, and it really gets that wonderful old-school Hawaiian tricone sound.
TJW |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 12:44 pm
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| does the tone get crisper towards the bridge/palm rest? |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 1:32 pm
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I don't like mellow on a tricone. In fact, I use bulk bronze strings and change them often. I kind of like the string noise, too, but to each his own.
Actually, I don't like mellow on any National, whether single cone or tricone. I love the edge that these guitars give, can really cut through if you want it to.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 1:48 pm
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| Todd, might we be able to get an audio sample for our perusal, por favor? |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 7:30 pm sample...
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| AJ Azure wrote: |
| Todd, might we be able to get an audio sample for our perusal, por favor? |
Hey AJ -- here's a sample I just did, quick 'n dirty. I'll do a better one later. It's in front of a Zoom H2 stereo recorder. Apologies for the sloppy playing. I get heavy handed after a few. I've had a couple adult beverages already tonight, and we know steel guitars and alcohol don't mix!
Anyway, you should at least get an idea of the tone of the guitar and the strings.
http://www.soundclick.com/updateband/songInfo.cfm?bandID=829442&updated=6489909&name
This link should take you there.
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 24 Apr 2008 7:38 pm Re: sample...
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| Todd Weger wrote: |
| AJ Azure wrote: |
| Todd, might we be able to get an audio sample for our perusal, por favor? |
Hey AJ -- here's a sample I just did, quick 'n dirty. I'll do a better one later. It's in front of a Zoom H2 stereo recorder. Apologies for the sloppy playing. I get heavy handed after a few. I've had a couple adult beverages already tonight, and we know steel guitars and alcohol don't mix!
Anyway, you should at least get an idea of the tone of the guitar and the strings.
http://www.soundclick.com/updateband/songInfo.cfm?bandID=829442&updated=6489909&name
This link should take you there.
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link dead ended. Please try again |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 25 Apr 2008 5:52 am OK, should work this time...
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I tried a different mp3 hosting site. Go to this site:
http://www.garageband.com/artist/kanekila
Click the little green arrow in the right column under "Songs." I tested it, and it worked (for now, anyway)...
I'm using a regular stainless bar (2.75" x 3/4" tapered to 5/8"). I get more sustain out of my 3" 918 Dunlop, but I like the control with the tapered bar.
TJW |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 25 Apr 2008 7:28 am
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Sounds good, Todd.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2008 9:02 am
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You did a great job on, "Sand," also! What was going on in the background? Or did you add that as a sound effect?
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Amor vincit omnia |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 25 Apr 2008 9:02 am
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| vintagey fresh |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 25 Apr 2008 1:58 pm Thanks
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Hey -- thanks guys. I was just basically trying to demonstrate the sound of the Republic with those strings in a traditional 20's era context, but I do appreciate the nice comments!
Edward -- that recording of "Sand" was done with my guitarist on a lunch cruise boat out of Clearwater. They have a "luau cruise' several times in the spring, and we were playing on it. You can hear the boat engine droning in the background, along with all the people talking, of course. When you hear my guitarist say "steel guitar," he's answering someone who asked what that weird instrument was that I was playing. 
I'm going to see if I can fire up my Roland VS-890 again, and figure out if I can remember how to use it. It's been awhile, and it's confusing as hell. Then, I'll try to put together a couple hapa-haole tunes with uke and bass to post later in another thread.
Mahalo again,
TJW |
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