Adding a LKL - positioning the lever

Richard Chapman · From: Saratoga, New York, USA

I am adding a LKL to my Sho-Bud S-10. In looking at pictures of different guitars, I see on some steels the lever is positioned between the A and B pedals and on others between the B and C pedals. I can understand putting it between the A nd B (and it appears that Buds were done this way originally), but is there a benifit to putting it between the B and C/ It looks like more modern designs place the lever there. Thanks
Richard

Antolina · From: Dunkirk NY

I'm not convinced there is a right or wrong way to set that lever. My LKL is positioned between the A & B pedal. It's all about where you sit, the length of you legs and the ease of pivoting to any particular lever. In other words, it (IMO) a personal decision.

In my case, I have an extremely short inseam so I sit positioned behind the 10th fret which is not the overall accepted norm. Most sit behind the 12th fret and some even higher. If at some point, for whatever reason, I choose to sit higher, I'll have to reposition my levers to fit me. As I said earlier, it's a personal thing.

Here's an allegory... Every motorcycle I've ever owned is always "customized" to my specs. that doesn't mean it will be comfortable or even practical for the next guy. Whoever owns my bike after me will undoubtedly have his or her's personal preferences.

Hope this helps Smile

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The only thing better than doing what you love is having someone that loves you enough to let you do it.

Sho~Bud 6139 3+3
Marrs 3+4

RC Antolina

Darvin Willhoite · From: Roxton, Tx. USA

Whether you play Emmons or Day style floor pedals may help determine where to put it. I use the Day style pedals, and like my LK's placed where they are reached comfortably with my foot on the B & C pedals.
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Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I always first jury-rig a kneelever to determine placement before doing the actual install. Nothing would be more frustrating then going to all the trouble to intall a kit, only to have it be in the wrong spot.

One way to do this might include using some two-sided tape applied to the bottom of the cross-shaft mounting brackets. Then temporarily hang the brackets with the cross-shaft and knee lever (and without the bellcranks and pullrods) at both spots being considered, to determine which placement feels more comfortable.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

IMHO, knee lever placement is the most important consideration in making a guitar feel "comfortable".

Do not take it lightly.

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I just went through this about a month ago. If you use the LKL lever with just the "A" pedal, you have to be able to rock your foot, so you won't press the "B" pedal. On my Sho-Bud, I couldn't do it, and a few people on here told me to move the LKL left. I took their advice, and I had to move it 2 inches to the left. ( I also moved the LKR left 2 inches too.) Now I have no trouble executing that move. And I feel 100% comfortable using that combination now. My foot would just not bend enough in the factory setting. I also lowered my "B" pedal a touch so as not to have it interfered. There is no problem moving them. A small drill, ruler, pencil, and screwdriver is all it takes. Then you might have to lengthen the rods. I did.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Richard Chapman · From: Saratoga, New York, USA

All great advice. I will try to set it up with tape first and get a feel for where I need it. Ronnie, if you are still tuning in, where was and now where is your lever in respect to the pedal rods? Thanks guys.

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I just checked my Sho-Bud. The factory set the LKL with the center of the axle about a 1/2 inch to the right of the "B" pedal. Now after I moved it the center is about in the middle of the "A" and "B" pedal. Before I remounted it, I simulized a lever to where my foot could cock to the left, and miss the "B" pedal. Thats how I came up with a 2 inch move. What i did was with the LKL, and the LKR folded up, i placed my foot on the A and B pedal and cocked my foot, and pushed my knee over till it was very close to what I wanted. Then with a pencil, I marked the underside of the body, and it came out at 2 inches. Now when you drill new holes for the screw, tape the drill bit to the same depth as the old holes. This way you wont drill through the finished top of the body. I just marked every hole over the 2 inches first. Then drilled them, and screwed the base of the lever in the new holes. If you are good with tools, it is very easy. My LKL was joined with ah 10-32 threaded rod to the swivel joint. I went to the hardware store, bought a 10-32 threaded rod coupling and a 3 inch screw. I cut the threaded end of the screw at 2 inches, joind it with the rod coupling to the 10-32 that was there, and it works great. Good luck
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I didn't use the pedal rods for my measurements I used the center of the pedal. So compensate for that.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

All I can say is be careful. One of the first steels I bought...and quickly dumped...was an MSA Classic. Whoever installed the LKL put it so far to the right (just past the C pedal) the guitar was virtually unplayable, at least for me. You could not roll off the B pedal while depressing the A unless your ankle was made of Silly Putty (the fact it weighed a ton didn't help - I decided it was not worth fixing and took a loss on it.).

I'd suggest trying a bunch of guitars if you can to find the right spot. It's rally hard to "fake it" without really playing one with full travel.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Richard Chapman · From: Saratoga, New York, USA

These are great tip guys and I really appreciate it. Living where I do, I rarely see another steel player let alone another steel so I'm on my own here. I spent a bunch of time last night looking at the way my leg moves when I lift off the B while holding the A and I'm pretty sure where I will dummy mount the lever for the test. Can't wait for the parts to arrive.
Richard

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

I didn't know you had to order the parts. It was so easy for me, just moving the one already there. If you have any questions when you get your parts, E-mail me if you need any more info. Since I moved my LKL, I used it more in a month, than I did for 25 years fighting the wrong placement.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

He may need longer pullrods, or parts to lengthen them. That could vary depending on what type of bell cranks his guitar has.

A piece of piano wire (appropriately gauged and cut to length) dye and dye handle, would allow for quick fabrication of longer pullrods. If the undercarriage is pot-metal, he'd need to bend a rt angle on the non-threaded rod tip that hooks to the bellcrank.

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

Yes, to add longer pull rods, I have looked into the possibility of using the wire that they tie up cieling grid with. Its cheap at home depot, and I think all you need is the 5-40 die to thread the wire with, for the nylon tuner. The other end is clamped with the allen set screw. I have a 6-32 die, but it is too big. I am going to buy me a 5-40 die, and try it. When I lengthened my 2 rods on the LKR lever, I welded pieces on to the original rods.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142

Richard Chapman · From: Saratoga, New York, USA

I ordered from Coop. He said he had a kit to do the work and I'm sure he is supplying just what I need. He's been great.
Richard

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